Shun Knifes worth it?
- Thread starter Derek
- Start date
The Tourist
Banned
Yikes, here's where I stick my neck out.
It is my personal opinion that knives of that genre are some of the finest tools out there. Let me explain that.
I believe laminated Japanese knives (and please read our other thread on nomenclature) provide some of the sharpest and most precise slices attainable. I also believe that for many of our serious food hobbyists here the presentation is an important factor of the meal.
Now, let's address the idea of "name brands." No question, Shun provides more positive attributes then misses. Even the price point ain't that scary. And clearly Buzz, JoeC and Locutus can hone them to do surgery.
To that end, I had the pleasure of (briefly) owning two DP Vegetable (Kakugata Nakiri). Both had frightfully sharp polished edges, and one of them probably held my all-time fear quotient for being spooky. It was a knife not to be handled foolishly.
From across the room those nakiri even looked like the Shun example. Given the same level of edge refinement and geometry I doubt anyone could tell the difference in the slice.
But knives are more than that. Some people like Americanized handles, some do not. Some like toothy edges, or knives sharpened with more obtuse angles. Some butakiris have more "nose weight." Some of us are snobs--although I'm really making an effort as of late to fight that.
If you like the Shun series in looks, performance, handling and price--go for it, and don't let any idiot like me tell you any different.
But go handle a few, cut with them if that's permitted. Kick some tires, don't be afraid to ask about care, edge retention, guaranties and just who the tinker is who's going to care for your knife.
And if you just "like it," that's reason enough.
It is my personal opinion that knives of that genre are some of the finest tools out there. Let me explain that.
I believe laminated Japanese knives (and please read our other thread on nomenclature) provide some of the sharpest and most precise slices attainable. I also believe that for many of our serious food hobbyists here the presentation is an important factor of the meal.
Now, let's address the idea of "name brands." No question, Shun provides more positive attributes then misses. Even the price point ain't that scary. And clearly Buzz, JoeC and Locutus can hone them to do surgery.
To that end, I had the pleasure of (briefly) owning two DP Vegetable (Kakugata Nakiri). Both had frightfully sharp polished edges, and one of them probably held my all-time fear quotient for being spooky. It was a knife not to be handled foolishly.
From across the room those nakiri even looked like the Shun example. Given the same level of edge refinement and geometry I doubt anyone could tell the difference in the slice.
But knives are more than that. Some people like Americanized handles, some do not. Some like toothy edges, or knives sharpened with more obtuse angles. Some butakiris have more "nose weight." Some of us are snobs--although I'm really making an effort as of late to fight that.
If you like the Shun series in looks, performance, handling and price--go for it, and don't let any idiot like me tell you any different.
But go handle a few, cut with them if that's permitted. Kick some tires, don't be afraid to ask about care, edge retention, guaranties and just who the tinker is who's going to care for your knife.
And if you just "like it," that's reason enough.
I think so also and own several. I like the 10" Chef's knife, 9" Bread Knife and the 3.5" paring knife all Classics the best. The others use more expensives powder steels rather VG10 and I personally don't like powder steels for a kitchen knife. I would avoid buying sets of any knife however.
S.Shepherd
New member
Shun is a pretty good cross between japanese and western knives IMO
The make very sharp knives, as a tad harder than other western manuf.
(KAI, the parent company has been making razorblade for a long time if I remember right)
You can usually find deals on them, just look around.
The make very sharp knives, as a tad harder than other western manuf.
(KAI, the parent company has been making razorblade for a long time if I remember right)
You can usually find deals on them, just look around.
The Tourist
Banned
The idea of powdered steel alloys doesn't bother me that much. Any alloy with the prefix "CPM" is a Crucible product fashioned in that manner. In utilizing many of their "higher carbon, lower chromium" products I have not been disappointed. But then, a knife is the final product of design, blade geometry, alloy, HT, quality of the edge, etc.
However, like you, I do not buy or recommend knives in "sets." My wife uses a Hattori knife, backed up by a Yaxell Ran.
FryBoy
New member
Depends. The Shun knives are very well made and look great, but they aren't going to make you any better of a cook, and as a practical matter they aren't going to do a better job than any other good kitchen knives, so in that regard they are overpriced. What you're paying for, IMHO, is mostly style -- they're very trendy.
What Chico, Joe, and Sean said. Stick with the Classic line. The Alton's Angle line is a stupid gimmick and the rest are overpriced for what you get. Shun's are factory sharpened are 16 degrees per side. If you're not into hand sharpening like the above mentioned cast of characters Shun sells an electric sharpener set at 16 degrees to match all their knives.
Hope that helps, but I wouldn't run out and buy a set before asking us about the enormous variety of great knives available that hardly anyone is aware of.
Buzz
Hope that helps, but I wouldn't run out and buy a set before asking us about the enormous variety of great knives available that hardly anyone is aware of.
Buzz
Oh, the original question. No, not worth it as there are better knives at similar prices.
Thank you everyone.
By the way Buzzard, Can you show me these similar knifes?
And to answer the op "better knifes will not make you a better cook, I do know that but as with knifes and even caemra's better knifes will help you to become a better cook.
for an example if you need to cut up a nice steak you don't want a walmart special slowing you down do you? Although Fab ware knifes I've purchased are walmarts knifes they can slow you down.
By the way fab ware knifes are pretty good for normal chopping and mincing.
By the way Buzzard, Can you show me these similar knifes?
And to answer the op "better knifes will not make you a better cook, I do know that but as with knifes and even caemra's better knifes will help you to become a better cook.
for an example if you need to cut up a nice steak you don't want a walmart special slowing you down do you? Although Fab ware knifes I've purchased are walmarts knifes they can slow you down.
By the way fab ware knifes are pretty good for normal chopping and mincing.
One of the best relatively inexpensive knives - Tojiro DP
Nice solid knife.
Take a look at this one.
A little more expensive but will hold its own against any knife at any price. Hiromota AS Note that the cutting edge is carbon steel whereas the rest is stainless. The carbon is Hitachi Aogami Blue Super Steel. There is no better cutting edge available anywhere and it is easy to care for. Here's one I had rehandled for my daughter.
I was thinking about $250 for a set and not $750 for a chef's knife.One of the best relatively inexpensive knives - Tojiro DP
Nice solid knife.
Take a look at this one.
A little more expensive but will hold its own against any knife at any price. Hiromota AS Note that the cutting edge is carbon steel whereas the rest is stainless. The carbon is Hitachi Aogami Blue Super Steel. There is no better cutting edge available anywhere and it is easy to care for. Here's one I had rehandled for my daughter.
$750???? Did you look at the prices of the knives I suggested? Besides, you don't need a "set" of knives. That is overlapping overkill. You need a paring knife, a Chef's knife, and maybe a slicer, boning knife, and/or bread knife depending on what you cook. I can get along just fine with a good sharp Chef's and nothing else.
$750?????? Where the hell did that come from?
Give me a minute and I will link the knife.$750???? Did you look at the prices of the knives I suggested? Besides, you don't need a "set" of knives. That is overlapping overkill. You need a paring knife, a Chef's knife, and maybe a slicer, boning knife, and/or bread knife depending on what you cook. I can get along just fine with a good sharp Chef's and nothing else.
$750?????? Where the hell did that come from?
FryBoy
New member
The Hiromotos look like great knives, especially for the prices -- which seems quite reasonable to me. Thanks for the link, buzzard767.
As for my comment that a better knife won't make you a better cook, I stand by that; but I'll add that lousy knives will make cooking less enjoyable. You just don't need to spend a fortune on showy knives like the Shuns to get a really good knife, as the Buzzard has pointed out.
As for my comment that a better knife won't make you a better cook, I stand by that; but I'll add that lousy knives will make cooking less enjoyable. You just don't need to spend a fortune on showy knives like the Shuns to get a really good knife, as the Buzzard has pointed out.
The Tourist
Banned
This is a very real question for each of us. Is a jackknife worth 500 bucks? Is an Hattori worth the money? Is a Harley worth more than a carnival ride?
The old saying is that things are worth what you're willing to pay for them. At the simplest level we could all get along quite nicely living in an RV, driving a Yugo and cutting everything with an Opinel. But where is the "La dolce vida?"
One of the coolest times I had with kitcheware was halving a grape with an insanely sharp nakiri. At that moment it was worth the tariff I paid for it.
Hey FryBoy, I know what your getting at, but better knifes will allow you to do more efficient tasks.
OK the knife you posted the link to is for cutting fish in very fine slices as used in some sushi. They are single beveled with very different geometry than any knife a home cook would need for doing daily meals. That is unless you eat a lot of finely sliced raw fish. Now it could be used for slicing beef for example but a bit of over kill in my opinion. I highly recommend the Tojiro line at Korin's or http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ProMSeries.html which are very fairly priced Japanese knife that should last the average home cook a life time.
As for the knife won't make one a better cook that isn't necessarily so in that food that is cut with a sharp thin blade will not be damaged by tearing or crushing it. A good example is to take a very sharp knife and cut an apple then take another cut with a dull knife and let it sit. See which turns brown first the same is true of any food stuffs. Less damage means better texture and taste.
As for the knife won't make one a better cook that isn't necessarily so in that food that is cut with a sharp thin blade will not be damaged by tearing or crushing it. A good example is to take a very sharp knife and cut an apple then take another cut with a dull knife and let it sit. See which turns brown first the same is true of any food stuffs. Less damage means better texture and taste.
The less expensive Hattoris usually come with about the best fit and finish in the business. They really are gorgeous and the geometry might be a tad better than the Hiromoto AS's. The Hattori edge is VG-10 just like the Shun Classics. The Hiromoto AS edge is a lot better as it can be made considerably sharper and longevity between sharpenings is way beyond VG-10.
Edit: I'm referring to the Hattori HD line of knives.
I agree with Buzz on this though Hiromoto AS edges are carbon steel so can't be abused like a stainless blade such as VG10 can. For example you can cut something with the stainless and set it down and come back later to clean it. I don't recommend you do that with a carbon blade even if clad with stainless. No stainless can reach the level of sharpness that a carbon blade can in the best grades of Japanese White or Blue steels.
FryBoy
New member
But as with most things in life, there is a point beyond with "better" doesn't make any practical difference.
An Aston Martin Vanquish isn't going to get you to the store any faster or in any greater degree of comfort than a Chevy Impala, but you may want the Vanquish for its beauty, outrageous engineering, coolness factor. Just understand what you're buying and why.
BTW, I do own a few pretty good knives, including a 270mm Hattori HD Gyuto and 170mm Hattori HD Santuko, but my everyday knives are 40-year-old Wusthof Classics that still sharpen and hold an edge quite nicely.
FryBoy
New member
Damn you guys! Now I have to buy another freakin' knife! Question is, which one?
Wait a week or two. I'm expecting delivery very soon of a 240mm Sakai Takayuki Grand Cheff Gyuto. The blade is solid Uddeholm AEB-L stainless razor blade steel. I have a 150mm Petty in this line and if the Gyuto geometry is relatively the same it just might be the best home Chef's knife ever. I don't know anyone who has one so I'll be making a full report on two big knife sites, but NCT will see it first.
Buzz
FryBoy
New member
Cool! I was leaning toward the 240mm Hiromoto Gyuto anyway, although I do need a smaller petty. Keep me posted.
Wart
Banned
Not really, a hack is a hack.
Your camera thing? Advancements in Technology is often confused with "better", and really only prop up the weak. Theres this goober ... never mind.
Can't hardly say todays knives are an advanced technology. I've seen arguments and postulations in these forums that have resulted in me doing a bit of research and what I've learned is we could have a big brouhaha over whether the best knife steel was made a thousand years ago.
Will a better knife make one a better cook? Unless one is using a butter knife to butcher with I have a hard time seeing it.
I have a block set of Henckels Gourmet made of Friodur, I would say there are people who wouldn't pick up one of these knives if they saw it laying on the sidewalk. Paid $100 for them, I'm happy.
About that overlap in a knife/block set ... Golly, what I can say about that. It's as though someone who was 'in the know' said it, was picked up on and then parroted to a point it's become a bogus 'truth'.
My set has a 8 and 10 inch chefs, world of difference between them. If I had to buy only one I would go for the 10" even though I use the 8" the most.
I have a 6, 8 and 10 inch utility. Ok, so the 10 inch is more of a slicer. gots to have a slicer.
THat leaves the 6 and 8", I use them both. Their interchangeable, sort of but not really. At times the 2" difference makes a difference.
The set also has a bread, 4" paring and a steel. No overlap there.
So in my block set of 7 knives I could really eliminate only 1, the 6 or 8" utility, and it's a toss up which would go. Probably the 6.
OTOH I only paid $100 for this set (which also included a Henckels carving fork, (non Henckels) cleaver and a bunch of steak knives, probably a few other things), but then that would only involve the price, not the function.
With the camera thing, there is a person on another site that fancies themselves talented with a camera, I looked through their personal graphics and about died laughing, the ratio of good to crap was sad.
for an example if you need to cut up a nice steak you don't want a walmart special slowing you down do you? Although Fab ware knifes I've purchased are walmarts knifes they can slow you down.
By the way fab ware knifes are pretty good for normal chopping and mincing.[/quote]
S.Shepherd
New member
I can tell you the best knife steel, simply, is being made today-no matter stainless or not