Obama - Moving Fast!!

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joec

New member
Gold Site Supporter
Pretty much like the flock that followed the right blindly. Hard when the shoe is on the other foot isn't it. You know the basic principle of our system of government the majority rules so the pendulum is now on the other side of the clock.
 

Keltin

New member
Gold Site Supporter
Ah, 7 years of war at about a billion dollars a week on it and that got us what, never mind the lives lost in this? All I can see is us on the edge of an economic collapse, the other side really has no solutions except to give more tax cuts to the rich. Oh well I can at least say that I seem to be in the majority for a change. If it works my new motto will become Spend Baby Spend.

The odd thing is, in the past, War has proved profitable. WWII was able to ease and finally break the Great Depression. Thus, old school mentality entrenched within the power corners of our government seem to think what worked then will work now…..but they fail to see things have changed! War is no longer the answer for sagging economics just like amputation is no longer the answer for wounded limbs. Things have changed drastically, but the dark corners of the powers that be are holding resilient and refusing to move on.
 

Mama

Queen of Cornbread
Site Supporter
Ah, 7 years of war at about a billion dollars a week on it and that got us what, never mind the lives lost in this? All I can see is us on the edge of an economic collapse, the other side really has no solutions except to give more tax cuts to the rich. Oh well I can at least say that I seem to be in the majority for a change. If it works my new motto will become Spend Baby Spend.

Doesn't that tell you that "Spend Baby Spend" isn't the answer?

They don't even know what they're spending our money on. If they just want to spend money, give it back to the people who gave it to them...and we'll spend it.
 

Keltin

New member
Gold Site Supporter
Doesn't that tell you that "Spend Baby Spend" isn't the answer?

They don't even know what they're spending our money on. If they just want to spend money, give it back to the people who gave it to them...and we'll spend it.

I'm not sure how much better I could do. When Bush's stimulus checks came, all I did was stimulate Wal-Mart and Home Depot! :yum::yum::yum:
 

joec

New member
Gold Site Supporter
Ah you don't know what they are spending money on but that doesn't mean the information isn't out there. It is available to the public as it is written not filter through and spin such as news, talking head or even the politicians themselves. Simply look it up and read it for yourself and you might be a bit pleasantly surprised by what the money is being spent on. Every bill is a matter of public record, but it isn't my problem if the house and senate could not take the time to read it. Perhaps if they spent less time on TV complaining about it they would keep talking about things that where actually left out of the final stimulus package. The same with Card Check the next great debate, simply read the bill and that is the facts not the TV ads about it. As for the spending bill passed yesterday that bill has been in the works for a year now by the old congress. 40% of the "Ear Marks" are there by the same republican's that voted against it. If you take Fox, NBC, CBS or ABC word on every thing you really won't ever know what the truth is.
 

Mama

Queen of Cornbread
Site Supporter
I'm not sure how much better I could do. When Bush's stimulus checks came, all I did was stimulate Wal-Mart and Home Depot! :yum::yum::yum:

But seriously, I'm sure you put some thought into it and spent it in a way that improved your quality of life...unless of course you ran out to Lefty's bar and bought everyone drinks...in which case, Lefty is doing pretty well but you're screwed. :alc:
 

JoeV

Dough Boy
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I'm not sure how much better I could do. When Bush's stimulus checks came, all I did was stimulate Wal-Mart and Home Depot! :yum::yum::yum:

That was the idea. Go out and spend it to get things moving. Unfortunately, it was a pittance, and I just put ours in the bank. This stimulus is NOT giving US anything to spend, and admittedly, will fall short of preserving the jobs that they said the money would protect or improve. I don't give a shit that BHO is fulfilling his promises quickly to make an impression on his disciples, he's spending money that HE admits is not going to do the job it was intended to. Pork is pork, and for him to allow that much pork to slide thru just to make a point is sacrilegious. Just another lying politician saying one thing and doing another. That's just pure arrogance, not leadership, and the American people will suffer financially because of it. I don't buy the bullshit of "give the guy a chance." He's had his chances and has show us his true colors. Just more of the same thing he campaigned against for two years. Bush Jr.
 

leolady

New member
Doesn't that tell you that "Spend Baby Spend" isn't the answer?

They don't even know what they're spending our money on. If they just want to spend money, give it back to the people who gave it to them...and we'll spend it.

The money the government is spending is primarily from middle to lower class workers. The rich and the upper middle class rarely pay taxes and when they do, it is at a much reduced rate.

Maybe it is time that taxes are assessed based on percentage of actual income -- not adjusted income.

And war is a very profitable enterprise for the rich -- why do you think we have so many wars. The owners of not only military weapons plants, but transportation executives, clothing manufacturers, equipment producers, ammo producers, and tons of other types of business literally make a fortune during war time.

If they did not make money having wars, you can bet the big businessmen would not encourage it!
 

PieSusan

Tortes Are Us
Super Site Supporter
How many of you have actually read the final copy of the bill or even bothered to find it or even read part of it or even know its name?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:8:./temp/~c111wOdJ8O::

You all have your opinions but I bet not one of you have read the bill or even part of it. In fact, the congressmen haven't read the bill in its entirety. They have staffs that tell them what is in the bill.

So, I agree Keltin.
"The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge." --Elbert Hubbard

Don't be bothered to learn the facts for yourselves. Don't bother to look at the amendments that have subsequently been added.

I mean why should you bother? Just listen to your favorite pundits and they will feed you what they want you to know. Left or Right, both sides are guilty of the same thing.

And like I said before, the only difference between the parties is what they spend our money on.

No need to go to the free government website and read the legislation for yourself.

How long did it take me to find it? About 5 seconds.
 

leolady

New member
As a matter of fact, if the rich paid their fair share of taxes -- percentage wise, the big deficit debate might be called the little deficit debate.

But I guess it is safer for the rich to pillary Obama than take the chance they might have to pay their FAIR share for a change.
 

joec

New member
Gold Site Supporter
How many of you have actually read the final copy of the bill or even bothered to find it or even read part of it or even know its name?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:8:./temp/~c111wOdJ8O::

You all have your opinions but I bet not one of you have read the bill or even part of it. In fact, the congressmen haven't read the bill in its entirety. They have staffs that tell them what is in the bill.

So, I agree Keltin.
"The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge." --Elbert Hubbard

Don't be bothered to learn the facts for yourselves. Don't bother to look at the amendments that have subsequently been added.

I mean why should you bother? Just listen to your favorite pundits and they will feed you what they want you to know. Left or Right, both sides are guilty of the same thing.

And like I said before, the only difference between the parties is what they spend our money on.

No need to go to the free government website and read the legislation for yourself.

How long did it take me to find it? About 5 seconds.

I didn't bother to post the site Susan, figured they would still bitch if about nothing else the time it would take to read it. Why would any one let facts get in the way of their beliefs really now, that would logical wouldn't it.
 

PieSusan

Tortes Are Us
Super Site Supporter
Truth is, what matters more to be is that people actually get involved in the political process. I may disagree with their viewpoint but if they vote, write to their congressman and try to make a difference I will respect them a whole lot more than if they just vent to vent and do nothing.
 

Keltin

New member
Gold Site Supporter
But seriously, I'm sure you put some thought into it and spent it in a way that improved your quality of life...unless of course you ran out to Lefty's bar and bought everyone drinks...in which case, Lefty is doing pretty well but you're screwed. :alc:

:yum::yum::yum::yum:

I did a little better than that! :lol:
 

waybomb

Well-known member
As a matter of fact, if the rich paid their fair share of taxes -- percentage wise, the big deficit debate might be called the little deficit debate.

But I guess it is safer for the rich to pillary Obama than take the chance they might have to pay their FAIR share for a change.

Prove that the rich do not pay their <fair> share. The IRS would love to know who that is. In fact, they will even pay YOU a reward if you can find them. You made the claim, now prove it. And once you do, make sure you contact the IRS so you can claim your reward.

I suspect the "rich" are very careful with their tax returns - they have alot more to loose.

I wonder how many middle income people, you know, those that pay some amount of tax, actually pay their fair share. I am sure there's no cheating going on by them.
 

S.Shepherd

New member
Prove that the rich do not pay their <fair> share. The IRS would love to know who that is. In fact, they will even pay YOU a reward if you can find them. You made the claim, now prove it. And once you do, make sure you contact the IRS so you can claim your reward.

I suspect the "rich" are very careful with their tax returns - they have alot more to loose.

I wonder how many middle income people, you know, those that pay some amount of tax, actually pay their fair share. I am sure there's no cheating going on by them.

:a1::agree:
 

PieSusan

Tortes Are Us
Super Site Supporter
this thread is quickly becoming inflamitory.first class warfare, next race warefare ?

:nono1:

How is asking folks if they know what is in the bill that Congress passed inflammatory class warefare? And you are the first person to mention race.

Do you think your little emoticon allows you to hide from that fact?:confused:
 

waybomb

Well-known member
The money the government is spending is primarily from middle to lower class workers. The rich and the upper middle class rarely pay taxes and when they do, it is at a much reduced rate.

Maybe it is time that taxes are assessed based on percentage of actual income -- not adjusted income.

And war is a very profitable enterprise for the rich -- why do you think we have so many wars. The owners of not only military weapons plants, but transportation executives, clothing manufacturers, equipment producers, ammo producers, and tons of other types of business literally make a fortune during war time.

If they did not make money having wars, you can bet the big businessmen would not encourage it!

OMG - go to the IRS.GOV site and prove your statements.
Or not - less than 4% of the taxpayers pay over 50% of the taxes.
50% pay NO taxes.
Don't believe me? Do some digging at the IRS site. Lotsa data there.
 

Keltin

New member
Gold Site Supporter
How many of you have actually read the final copy of the bill or even bothered to find it or even read part of it or even know its name?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:8:./temp/~c111wOdJ8O::

You all have your opinions but I bet not one of you have read the bill or even part of it. In fact, the congressmen haven't read the bill in its entirety. They have staffs that tell them what is in the bill.

So, I agree Keltin.
"The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge." --Elbert Hubbard

Don't be bothered to learn the facts for yourselves. Don't bother to look at the amendments that have subsequently been added.

I mean why should you bother? Just listen to your favorite pundits and they will feed you what they want you to know. Left or Right, both sides are guilty of the same thing.

And like I said before, the only difference between the parties is what they spend our money on.

No need to go to the free government website and read the legislation for yourself.

How long did it take me to find it? About 5 seconds.

First, your link is broken. Second, the ideas of the bill I have read. Third, the discussion isn’t about what is on paper, but what HAPPENS. Fourth, I write my Congressmen constantly, and have received plenty of replies and even Christmas cards. Fifth, things that look good on paper get passed, that don’t mean they work.

Ever heard of an ECO, it’s a fundamental change to things you use every day. Guess what, NOTHING works first time on paper. We have a standing challenge at my work….if you can release a full blown product at Revision A (first pass according to paper) you get a bonus and steak dinner. No one has claimed it. Why? Because there are TOO many factors in play. The best laid plan still involves factors you can not control. The minute your design relies on someone else, you bring their problems in. On paper is crap, in action is where we see the proof. Only a fool would put stock in a draft that hasn’t seen combat and been exploited for the “loopholes”.
 

S.Shepherd

New member
How is asking folks if they know what is in the bill that Congress passed inflammatory class warefare? And you are the first person to mention race.

Do you think your little emoticon allows you to hide from that fact?:confused:


I honestly have no clue what yer talking about-I hide from nothing
I suggest you adjust your tone.

The fact is, noone got to read what was in "porkulous" before it was passed, other than those who wrote it.

This all goes back to the same thing--things need to slow down so people can actually see whats being proposed. It reminds me of the slick finance manager in car sales making you sign everything fast as you can. You don't take the time to read it and you've bought a bunch of things you never wanted.
 

S.Shepherd

New member
How is asking folks if they know what is in the bill that Congress passed inflammatory class warefare? And you are the first person to mention race.

Do you think your little emoticon allows you to hide from that fact?:confused:


Yup, I brought up race....

as soon as you start saying "the rich don't pay their share", you're going to start the finger pointing at race, age, and gender.
 

Keltin

New member
Gold Site Supporter
Let's see some democracy in action, right now.

I vote we close this thread immediately. It's just not right here.

Any other votes? I say close it......Yay....Nay????

Mods, can you help?
 

Mama

Queen of Cornbread
Site Supporter
The money the government is spending is primarily from middle to lower class workers. The rich and the upper middle class rarely pay taxes and when they do, it is at a much reduced rate.

Maybe it is time that taxes are assessed based on percentage of actual income -- not adjusted income.

And war is a very profitable enterprise for the rich -- why do you think we have so many wars. The owners of not only military weapons plants, but transportation executives, clothing manufacturers, equipment producers, ammo producers, and tons of other types of business literally make a fortune during war time.

If they did not make money having wars, you can bet the big businessmen would not encourage it!

This from the Office of Tax Analysis at the US Treasury Department:

"In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income."

"The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share."

"Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total."
 

waybomb

Well-known member
This from the Office of Tax Analysis at the IRS:

"In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income."

"The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share."

"Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total."

Actually, you can dig deeper and get 2006 data. In 2006, the top 1% paid over 38% of the tax.
If you are in the group that makes over 108,000, that's the top 10% of all earners, your group paid over 70% of the taxes.
 

Mama

Queen of Cornbread
Site Supporter
Let's see some democracy in action, right now.

I vote we close this thread immediately. It's just not right here.

Any other votes? I say close it......Yay....Nay????

Mods, can you help?

It wouldn't be necessary if people would stick to the facts and quit posting on emotion.

PieSusan, I have read some of the Bill, if our representatives had done their jobs and read the bill too, they would have done something about all of the wasteful spending in it.
 

Maverick2272

Stewed Monkey
Super Site Supporter
We went ahead and closed the thread down. For now, we are leaving it here in the open forum. As has been stated numerous times before, it is OK to have a general discussion on these types of issues, but not debates. We have also stated that posts can be edited or removed if they are found to be inflammatory, uncivil, or a personal attack on any individual.
To clarify this for everyone:
In a discussion, an opinion is stated within a matter of two or three posts, then the poster moves on.
In a debate, posters continue well beyond that and do not move on but rather continue to repeatedly go over the subject being debated.
Using harsh or coarse language to show strong emotion in a negative way towards another person's post is considered uncivil. Posting an opinion that is strongly worded and is an attack on another persons opinions is considered inflammatory. And finally any post directed toward any other poster bearing negative conotations against that poster is considered a personal attack.
It is always best to re-read your post before submitting it, taking the time to ask yourself the above questions, and ensuring that your post in its entirety is dealing with the issue being discussed and not in any way the person who's post you are responding to.
If in doubt, don't post!

We are going to leave this up for now in hopes others may be able to gain some valid and worthwhile information from the thread, and also in the hopes that others we read it will be able to clearly see why it was closed down, and how best to prevent themselves from being involved in such debates on the board.

Please remember, if you wish to discuss politics at a more in depth level, please visit one of Doc's other forums, www.forumform.com for more on this.

Thank you everyone for your help in this. The thread will remain as is until Doc takes a look at it in the morning and makes any final decision he deems appropriate.

Bud
 
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