Jumbo Jetliner Mysteriously Disappears off Radar!!

Saliha

Well-known member
Why just Chinese? I am sure that many "conspiracy theorists" will claim it was CIA - for the what reason... well, they will find a lot of suitable "reasons".

:huh:

Would you have some aspirin to me too?
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
>>the CIA . . .

no problem. I can go with that theory.

you want coated or un-coated aspirin? got a closet full....
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
well, Sherm, whaddya' think?

the batteries are technically dead, or more deader depending on whether the 'they done stored them wrong' story is right/wrong/indifferent.

the conspiracy theories will go on for decades.

here's mine:
some high level Chinese muck-a-muck was smuggling something on the plane, got found out, decided to make the plane and all evidence disappear.
there was that mysterious phone call just before departure....

the Chinese 'found' the first floating wreckage.
the Chinese 'found' the first ping - perhaps they tossed a couple emergency beacons there at 15,000 feet depth to create a diversion? was the prior search area getting too close?

perhaps the Chinese smuggler does not _want_ the plane to be found?

oh, ma'haid.... too many theories . . . I need some aspirin.....



Conspiracy theories will run rapidly and have possibly already spread like wildfire. Just like it has done, and continues to do so with the 09-11-01 terror attacks.

Supposedly now, they think that they might have located where the black box and flight recorder might be, according to the "pings" heard by the Chinese ship, but that still does not truly verify that the unit is there until or unless expensive equipment is sent down in the area to try to investigate as to whether they've located it or pieces of the plane.

They estimate that the wreckage is at least 1,400 or so feet down on the ocean floor. At that level, it is pitch black down there, even if the sun is shining high overhead! No scuba diver could even stand a snowball's chance in hell of being able to go down there without being in a pressurized sub or a mini sub.

They plan to send robot equipment down if they think that is the spot. :eating2:
 

Doc

Administrator
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Two more pings detected last night by Australia's Navy. Seems they are zeroing in on it. Real hope that they will find the box and at least part of the plane in the near future. :thumb:
What's that smell Shermie? :yum:
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Two more pings detected last night by Australia's Navy. Seems they are zeroing in on it. Real hope that they will find the box and at least part of the plane in the near future. :thumb:
What's that smell Shermie? :yum:




Won't be anything "yummy" about what they're about to find down there! I'm pretty certain that all of the victims are badly decomposed by now!! :sad:
 

Doc

Administrator
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
I can only imagine what the extreme pressure of deep deep water would do to a body. You are right, it sure would not be pretty. I sure feel for those poor folks and their families.
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
the whole situation just reeks of un-revealed things.

according to Malaysian reports, the autopilot was reprogrammed 12 (?) minutes prior to the last voice contact - the famous "Goodnight" thing.

per Malaysian radars the plane turned west, enroute to an established "waypoint" - gobblespeak for a point in an air traffic corridor route.

then proceeded to a second waypoint and looped around that; before turning west again and flying down the west side of the island chain into "nowhere" aka southern Indian Ocean.

note that this 'down the west side' route does not agree with the arc of the engine system ping data in the early hours of the flight; only much later do the two paths converge.

the plane could not do that except under human control - which human...? that's a question.

catastrophic fire disabled the electrical system(s) - okay, how'd the autopilot continue working?

it's a fly by wire system; one would certain hope the designers "protected" the electrical supply to flight control surfaces from any kind of disruption. batteries? how long do those batteries last?

they have a magnetic compass, flying off into never never land for lack of a sense of direction.... not too likely. tossing aside all 'standard procedures' where the pilot/co-pilot would have immediately notified somebody on the ground "Malaysia, we have a problem."

"soft landing, plane intact, sunk intact = no wreckage / debris" - so many problems there. in a soft landing the surviving passengers would have evacuated aka the 'Miracle on the Hudson' and something would have been found, by now.

did the passengers not notice they were supposed to land hours ago? hence the theory the passengers and crew were "disabled" - smoke, toxic fumes, depressurization, pick a theory - major holes in all of them. problem with that is a disabled cockpit crew could not hop from waypoint to waypoint then later set a course into never-never land.

disabled passengers and crew + soft landing - not going work - the autopilot system seeks to keep the aircraft on a course, at the specified altitude and speed. autopilots are probably (because I'm not really an expert in autopilots) not programmed to revert to "when all else fails, do a soft landing" - more likely when the fuel was exhausted the autopilot would blindly attempt to control course, altitude and airspeed - eventually pulling the nose up to the point the aircraft stalled and hit the water in a violent spin. problem: no wreckage / debris.

a 'slow leak depressurization'? nope. cabin pressure is maintained by compressed air from the engines - which continued to work. 'fresh' air is continuously supplied under pressure and 'stale' air vented out the back of the plane. small "holes" cannot cause a complete / debilitating depressurization, and the Hollywood version of a bullet blowing out a window and everything in the cabin gets sucked out is just that - Hollywood, not reality. bullet hole(s) would put a small diameter hole in the window / fuselage and not much more would come of it other than less stale air being exhausted from the cabin.

"the pings" - hopefully this will lead searchers to a specific location. there is a problem: sound travels through water in mysterious and sometimes unpredictable ways / paths. the biggie in the issue is "thermoclines" - layers of water at different temperatures which "refract aka bend / transmit" sound somewhat unpredictably. it's going to take multiple "got it" events to pin point things; and then there's the question of how long the devices may continue to ping....

given the wind and currents in that area of ocean - and the elapsed time, surface wreckage could be hundreds of miles from where the aircraft pingers settled on the bottom. it will be really a bad scene to find dead survivors in life rafts after a soft landing - dead because nobody knew where to start looking.

at the moment, there's precious little other than intentional - and skilled - action which explains the totality of the circumstances.

why? that is a valid question.
 

Saliha

Well-known member
In one local newspaper here was an image about how deep those black boxes of this disappeared plane are (sorry the language) and how difficult it would get them away:

Etsinnän syvyys = the search depth
Kadonnut lentokone = missing plane
Meren pinta = sea level

Ihmissilmä ei erota valoa tämän syvemmältä = The human eye does not distinguish the light of this deeper.

1288675150220.jpg


Ooops, I forgot source: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288675099235.html?pos=ksk-trm-uuti-ostu
 
Last edited:

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
the number I've seen is 14,000 feet

near 4.3 km
near 2.65 miles

gonna' need a bigger snorkel.....
 

buzzard767

golfaknifeaholic
Gold Site Supporter
did the passengers not notice they were supposed to land hours ago? hence the theory the passengers and crew were "disabled" - smoke, toxic fumes, depressurization, pick a theory - major holes in all of them. problem with that is a disabled cockpit crew could not hop from waypoint to waypoint then later set a course into never-never land.

Easy to do. Depressurize the plane. The passenger O2 lasts 15 minutes and then they pass out and die. The cockpit O2 is it's own system, a bottle of pure Oxygen with a long duration, not chemically generated O2 like the pax have.




disabled passengers and crew + soft landing - not going work - the autopilot system seeks to keep the aircraft on a course, at the specified altitude and speed. autopilots are probably (because I'm not really an expert in autopilots) not programmed to revert to "when all else fails, do a soft landing" - more likely when the fuel was exhausted the autopilot would blindly attempt to control course, altitude and airspeed - eventually pulling the nose up to the point the aircraft stalled and hit the water in a violent spin. problem: no wreckage / debris.

a 'slow leak depressurization'? nope. cabin pressure is maintained by compressed air from the engines - which continued to work. 'fresh' air is continuously supplied under pressure and 'stale' air vented out the back of the plane. small "holes" cannot cause a complete / debilitating depressurization, and the Hollywood version of a bullet blowing out a window and everything in the cabin gets sucked out is just that - Hollywood, not reality. bullet hole(s) would put a small diameter hole in the window / fuselage and not much more would come of it other than less stale air being exhausted from the cabin.

Obviously! ;)

Slow depressurizing can in fact occur if one or more outflow valves malfunction. It wouldn't be the first time.
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
>>The cockpit O2 is it's own system, a bottle of pure Oxygen with a long duration, not chemically generated O2 like the pax have.

not what was reported, but then again, is there a surprise?

>>slow depressurization
so.... there's no alarms, no warnings, no nothing - but the cockpit crew has a long duration supply, so (not) long they had no ability to alert / notify / radio / contact anyone?

this is the problem. no "thing" can explain all the "reported" issues.
which leaves the problem: "reported" is not true/real.
 

buzzard767

golfaknifeaholic
Gold Site Supporter
>>slow depressurization
so.... there's no alarms, no warnings, no nothing - but the cockpit crew has a long duration supply, so (not) long they had no ability to alert / notify / radio / contact anyone?

Of course there are.

Why not assume there was no intention of originating further communications from the cockpit if a form of hijacking was taking place?



this is the problem. no "thing" can explain all the "reported" issues.
which leaves the problem: "reported" is not true/real.

One type of reporting is that done by so called experts hired by the media. I watched a lot of it and can say quite honestly that 90% of them didn't know their ass about Boeings, air traffic control procedures, auto pilots, O2 systems, flight data and cockpit voice recorders, time of useful consciousness in an unpressurized environment at altitude, etc. These experts also turned out to be sci-fi quality speculators.

Another type of reporting was/is that by governments. The fact that unverifiable satellite data showing up three days post recording just has to tell you something. Let your imagination run wild. :yuk:
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
>>Why not assume there was no intention of originating further communications from the cockpit if a form of hijacking was taking place?

aahhh, agreed:
"the plane could not do that except under human control - which human...? that's a question."

>>media experts
yup. anybody who has never set a toe in an airplane can see the BS.
 

Leni

New member
I wonder about decomposition. At that depth it is very, very cold.

I doubt that we will ever know exactly what happened.
 

Saliha

Well-known member
I wonder about decomposition. At that depth it is very, very cold.

I doubt that we will ever know exactly what happened.

About the temperature, I read some article about conditions of the deep sea.

"...the deep sea temperature remains between about -1 to about +4°C. However, water never freezes in the deep sea (note that, because of salt, seawater freezes at -1.8°C."

Source: http://marinebio.org/oceans/deep/
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
>>Obviously

okay. I'm way out of date on my NATOPS crap. so.

fly straight and level with autopilot engaged
engines (conveniently) flame out symmetric.

what does the autopilot now do?
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Easy to do. Depressurize the plane. The passenger O2 lasts 15 minutes and then they pass out and die. The cockpit O2 is it's own system, a bottle of pure Oxygen with a long duration, not chemically generated O2 like the pax have.






Obviously! ;)

Slow depressurizing can in fact occur if one or more outflow valves malfunction. It wouldn't be the first time.



So it is possible that they all might have died even before the plane struck the waters.

Also, the plane has an onboard computer, which can be overridden. They might have either let it control the plane to land or they did it manully.

So many theories, yet nothing is conclusive as yet. Not until those two boxes are found, to give them something to try to go on. Boy!! What a horrible way to die!!! :sad:
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
>>So it is possible that they all might have died even before the plane struck the waters.

so who was directing the plane from waypoint to waypoint and eventually into nowhere? an autopilot system does not mystically reprogram itself ala The Twilight Zone.

someone on that plane had the skill set to fly it in very specific pattern(s) up until some point when apparently it just kept going "on auto" until it ran out of fuel.

and iffin' they were all dead, who did the overriding bit:
>>Also, the plane has an onboard computer, which can be overridden. They might have either let it control the plane to land or they did it manully.

and iffin' they were not all dead, and iffin' they wanted to land the plane, why were they not communicating to someone/anyone on the ground?

the electrical failure bit?
the failure bit that all so conveniently disables everything but the stuff they need?
the electrical failure that made the magnetic compass point in some strange direction?
 

buzzard767

golfaknifeaholic
Gold Site Supporter
>>Obviously

okay. I'm way out of date on my NATOPS crap. so.

fly straight and level with autopilot engaged
engines (conveniently) flame out symmetric.

what does the autopilot now do?

The A/P would attempt to maintain heading and altitude. When the plane runs out of airspeed the plane stalls and crashes.
 

buzzard767

golfaknifeaholic
Gold Site Supporter
so who was directing the plane from waypoint to waypoint and eventually into nowhere? an autopilot system does not mystically reprogram itself ala The Twilight Zone.

someone on that plane had the skill set to fly it in very specific pattern(s) up until some point when apparently it just kept going "on auto" until it ran out of fuel.


You're a media victim. You don't have to reprogram the Flight Management System to fly elsewhere on A/P. All one needs to do is press Heading Select on the A/P panel, spin the pipper to the direction you want to go, and the A/P responds and disregards the FMS because it is now disconnected from it. Same for Air Speed and Altitude - all changeable with no regard to the FMS.
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
>>All one needs to do is press Heading Select on the A/P panel

so you've missed the point. it does not matter which dial has to be turned or which button has to be pushed.

some alive human being did that. which refutes the idea: "they're all daid, Jim"

>>When the plane runs out of airspeed the plane stalls and crashes.
yeah, that's what I said.
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
>>you asked
yup. and it was a serious question - but "what did the autopilot do" after both engine loss is a moot point.

according to this simulator run, the autopilot disengages on loss of both engines
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v...idge-flight-simulation-fuel-scenario.cnn.html

so, unless a/the pilot was still flying the plane, a soft landing can be ruled out; and is still iffy depending on skill, sea state, etc.

I started looking around because "how did the plane fly that far" without transferring fuel around....turns out the 777 has automated fuel transfer system - if enabled, and if electrical power was available.

so any catastrophic electrical failure was exceeding selective - only all the radios, all the auto-contacting stuff was affected. the FMS, the autopilot, the fuel system, all those apparently retained power.

and the slow/catastrophic depressurization scenario is not looking to good either.
the flight altitude profile is shown here. is it accurate? who knows at this point.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...0-flight-path-and-timestamps/article17449485/

if the failure occurred at the first point the plane deviated, it apparently did not descend. if it did descend 'between data points' why did it go back up to altitude? one hour plus at 35,000+ is enough to put everyone out on the plane - emergency oxygen or not. so who turned the plane south?

the hijacking theory still stands - explains why the plane turned northwest. perhaps the hijacking event went really bad sour midway and the plane got set up / left on a never never land course?
and the "with full intent" theory still stands.
 

buzzard767

golfaknifeaholic
Gold Site Supporter
You're trying too hard.

Take your statement "some alive human being did that. which refutes the idea: "they're all daid, Jim""

Dead when? A crash? Oxygen starvation?

Here's how a "dead" man can fly the airplane all over the place. I could set this up in less than 5 minutes - child's play for an airline pilot:

Program the Flight Management System to fly the plane to inputted points and to meet those points at various altitudes and airspeeds. They don't have to be published navigation points. You can input any sets of coordinates. Depressurize the plane. Don't don an O2 mask. Die. The plane doesn't care. It has it's instructions and will continue onward as programmed until the fuel is exhausted.

A strangely unique form of suicide but no more weird than some of the crap I've seen on the news programs.
 

Leni

New member
A couple of things that I've never understood.

1. Why commit suicide?
2. Why take innocents others with you?
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
>> no more weird

very true. the "willful conduct" theory stands on the table.

the mechanical failure / fire / electrical failure stuff is not working out too well.

the pilot/co-pilot barricades the cockpit, kills the other guy, re-routes the plane, depressurizes everything, piece of cake.

curious flight plan / route to suicide tho.
 

Doc

Administrator
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Very curious indeed. And while I have little hope the flight data recorder aka black box will shed a whole lot of light on why this happened it would be good to know for sure where the plane went down.
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
Doc -

as you've probably read, there's two devices

the voice recorder has a rather short time loop - and indeed may not have a single peep on it, if/when recovered.

the flight data recorder keeps the last 17+ hours data - that can reveal a lot of things about the operating and environmental parameters prior to the crash. it can reveal what happened, but for example in cases where "everything looks normal" not why.

if recovered, the last bit of data will say:
plane ran out of gas
plane crashed

why the plane came to be in that situation may not be contained in the flight data.
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
They admitted yesterday that it won't be easy trying to retrieve the black box & flight recorder, mainly because of the depth of the devices which are close to 1,500 feet down. Deeper than the Empire State Building is tall!!

As for trying to retrieve any of the plane's wreckage or bodies, well, that'a another show. :sad:
 
Top