Birds of a Feather? Three Knives Together.

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The Tourist

Banned
"The area directly behind the edge is wider, and then wider still as edge wears."

The area behind the edge being the angles we were talking about?

If you look at the knife dead on from the front, the basic shape of a knife is a very skinny triangle.

Given time, that tip will wear away and the shape will become a trapezoid. The flat top part is the plane that relects light. The edge is now missing, and the area which is being used to cut is the area created behind that original edge.
 

Doc

Administrator
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Awesome thread guys!!! We all learn from these questions and answers. :thumb:
 

The Tourist

Banned
Ya' know, Doc, I think I needed it as much as anyone.

It's all too easy to look at a knife, disgnose the problematic issues, select a stone by rote, "dunk it and plunk it."

One client watched me sharpen once and stated, "Why do you tense your forearm and lightly twist your wrist on some portions of the knife?"

I wasn't even aware I did that.

And new alloys come down the pike all of the time. Locutus just bought a new folder with an alloy I have never seen, much less have sharpened.

I had to go to a steel chart just to find out the components of the alloy. As we spoke that night we opined a system of sharpening, but I could not say for certain what is a knowing course of action.

Asking penetrating questions gets the juices flowing. Believe it or not there are scores of people who opt for mundane steel, and then seriously care for their knives by rubbing them on a mouse-pad covered in sandpaper. And they don't even really know why.

Now, if JoeC told me he just bought a new bundle of sandpaper, it wouldn't bother me one bit. He studies. He has numerous knives. He probably studies more than I do. Put he assesses his position and acts from a point of understanding.

But if this thread has proven one thing to me it's that "two planes forming an edge" requires intense consideration.

And it's incredibly hard on trying to be a non-guru.:dizzy:
 

joec

New member
Gold Site Supporter
Now, if JoeC told me he just bought a new bundle of sandpaper, it wouldn't bother me one bit. He studies. He has numerous knives. He probably studies more than I do. Put he assesses his position and acts from a point of understanding.

But if this thread has proven one thing to me it's that "two planes forming an edge" requires intense consideration.

And it's incredibly hard on trying to be a non-guru.:dizzy:

Nope no sand paper but did get my new 2 pieces of the new HA Scrubbed Bull Leather Pads and the 4 oz bottle of .25 micron HA diamond spray from Dave today. :thumb:
 

Rhodemaster

New member
Tourist....

I did pay attention in geometry, and received good grades in it.

You said:

"If you look at the knife dead on from the front, the basic shape of a knife is a very skinny triangle.

Given time, that tip will wear away and the shape will become a trapezoid. The flat top part is the plane that relects light. The edge is now missing, and the area which is being used to cut is the area created behind that original edge."

A triangle is a three sided shape, the trapezoid has four sides.

If I apply everything you have told me to this point, the knife wears through abrasion.

As the knife wears, wouldn't the triangle become smaller?

Where does the fourth side come from?
 

Rhodemaster

New member
As the "Pristine Edge" disappears, don't the sides of the triangle you described also disappear?

Wind wearing on a mountain will not change it into a plateau.

I could understand the edge becoming more rounded as it wears but how does it become flat?
 

The Tourist

Banned
Rhodemaster, you are bogging down this discussion with many of the repetitive points discussed on the Alton Brown video. I know I've responded to the "wear issue" four or five times.

What you need to do is the same thing many people due when apporaching the issues surrounding sharpening and modern kitchen knives.

First, get a book on sharpening paying, special attention to the nomenclature of the knives themselves. A book on alloys and metallurgy wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

You have now reached the point where we have given you tools and direction, and the rest is up to you.

We need to resume interfacing with chefs and food hobbyists who need some additional info.
 

Rhodemaster

New member
Tourist,

With Locutus blatantly insulting me on a public forum by calling me a Troll with no repercussions and you now dismissing me after providing absolutely no information more than I could receive from the Alton Brown video you continue to refer me to it's time for me to realize that there is NOTHING to learn here about knives and sharpening.

I have been nothing but polite here; the questions I have asked have been in an attempt to clarify the information you have provided. Your answers obfuscate rather than inform and your dismissing me raises question as to your actual knowledge. Perhaps someone with actual knowledge will come here and inform those who remain as your self proclaimed title of Tinker seems quite appropriate once one reads a dictionary.

Scotty, beam me up... The Tinker needs to try to impress the Chefs and Food Hobbyists and I'm just getting in the way.
 
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The Tourist

Banned
Rhodemaster, we have actually tried to be polite. But your accusation as to who we are tells us who you are.

For example, the jokes we tell about gurus are just that, simple jokes. None of the tinkers have a B&M store, or teach adult education classes or even have the license to do that type of work. If I had that much free time I'd buy another Harley.

Here's an easy instance. I wrote: "the fine art of absconding with any ruminant sheep belonging to hobbyist forum moderators."

All that means is I drive moderators nuts. A 'ruminant sheep' is a goat. I get their goats. It's an idiomatic expression meaning I am an unrepentant sinner.

We're not bragging or picking fights or seeking the rarified air of 'sensei.'

As for being a 'tinker,' did you ever read the dictionary desciption:

noun> 1. a traveling mender of pots and kettles 2. chiefly derogatory a gypsy or other member of the traveling community.

My business card says that I am a "Itinerant Sharpener." I have a second set of tools in the front seat of my truck. If a client calls, I drive to his restaurant, hence 'itinerant.'

Just because you or your fellow home forum members don't understand the jokes or multi-syllable words isn't really my fault. The Borders Bookstore in my area is open for a wide range of hours. They have an excellent reference book section.

At the day's end, how seriously do you want me to take the internet? For 38 years I have sat inside the breakroom of various Harley shops in Madison area. We eat hotdogs, we dunk donuts, worry about our kids and shine up a little chrome. And everyone knows where we are--friend and enemy.

No enemy has shown up yet, not in almost four decades. I can only surmise that the insults I hear are hot air.
 

Doc

Administrator
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Tourist,

With Locutus blatantly insulting me on a public forum by calling me a Troll with no repercussions and you now dismissing me after providing absolutely no information more than I could receive from the Alton Brown video you continue to refer me to ...

Chico has been very up front with you and given you plenty of good info. If you saw the video in question and know he is giving you no more than the video, then it sure seems to me the label troll fits. If you know all this why did you come here only to barrage Chico with question after question? Besides looking up Tinker as Chico suggested perhaps you should look up the meaning of troll.
We run this forum differently than others you might have had your way on. We let your words speak for themselves. Take the time to reread what you've posted in this thread. .....Naaa you won't do that, you know why you came here and what your goal is. Well .....so do I.
 

cooking4fun

New member
Chico -

Answer me a few questions:

How long have you been a professional sharpener?

How much do you charge to sharpen an 8" chef's knife that is in good condition and purely needs the edge refined. No thinning, no great polish, just a good sharpening?

How do you handle a full bolstered kitchen knife when the edge creeps up past the bolster at the heel?

In general, what are the advantages and disadvantages of a gyuto over a Western style chef's knife?

The point of this thread was initially a grouping of 3 different knives that you used to represent what many home's have. How did you come to pick those three knives?

How do you detect a burr formed with a stone with a grit higher than 4,000 grit JIS?

These are just a few of the many questions I have for you as a professional sharpener.

Please refrain from doing anything but directly answering the questions. Please don't dance around them with fancy words and stories about bikers and stories about your childhood.....just answer the questions. I'm sincerely looking for information here that I've been unable to find elsewhere.

Thanks!!!
 

Doc

Administrator
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Hi cooking4fun. Welcome to Net Cooking Talk. how did you find us?

Chico must be quite the master to have this type of following. Hats off to Chico aka The Tourist!!! :tiphat: :clap: :beer:
 

D_R_Sharpening

New member
I registered here, and am posting now, just to let folks know that I'm neither "Rhodemaster" nor "cooking4fun".

I was sent an email letting me know that these folks are asking questions (here at NC) of The Tourist which may be giving off the impression that I may be posting/posing as someone I'm not.

I have no interest in being here other than letting you all know (mostly the guys I know from KF) that it's not me messing about and if I had something to say I'd be here under this same screenname that you all know me as. I hope this has cleared the air as I don't wish to have my name associated with this discussion on any level.

That's all I've got to say so thanks for your time.

Dave
 

noobietinker

New member
Hi to Tourist! I a big fan of you over at the knifeforum. I wish you never got banned. I looking for information for using the edgepro on profffessional tinkering. Can this be a good tool for this? I hear that it is not for repairs and you need other tools for that. Can you give advice on this Truist? I could sure use your help. Thank you
 

vai777

New member
Chico -

Answer me a few questions:

How long have you been a professional sharpener?

How much do you charge to sharpen an 8" chef's knife that is in good condition and purely needs the edge refined. No thinning, no great polish, just a good sharpening?

How do you handle a full bolstered kitchen knife when the edge creeps up past the bolster at the heel?

In general, what are the advantages and disadvantages of a gyuto over a Western style chef's knife?

The point of this thread was initially a grouping of 3 different knives that you used to represent what many home's have. How did you come to pick those three knives?

How do you detect a burr formed with a stone with a grit higher than 4,000 grit JIS?

These are just a few of the many questions I have for you as a professional sharpener.

Please refrain from doing anything but directly answering the questions. Please don't dance around them with fancy words and stories about bikers and stories about your childhood.....just answer the questions. I'm sincerely looking for information here that I've been unable to find elsewhere.

Thanks!!!










Ohh , I can't wait to see him skirt around these answers now. Why even bother asking him a question? It's just the same ol' BS.
 

vai777

New member
Noobie, You have alot to learn my friend. Do me a favor and disregard everything you ever read from The Tourist. It's complete nonsense. Ohh and by the way- Please do us all a favor and stop posting on knifeforums.com. The world would be a better place.
 

noobietinker

New member
vai you are a nasty person. I onmly lurk at the knifeforums because I not yet a professsional tinker. I don't earn the right to post there yet. Please leaf Toruist alone he tells the truth for us to read.
 

noobietinker

New member
Back to topic,,,,,Torist how do you fix this with your edgpro tool?
 

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vai777

New member
Ok Noobie I'll play nice for you. Maybe I should prance around and talk about laminates like i know what i'm talking about. I'll throw some cheap crkt knock-offs in the freezer while i'm at it too. Maybe if i start sharpening under water I won't have to soak my stones. Ohh wait, That's right. Chico doesn't even use stones. He uses an edge pro. My bad. :oops: Maybe if I practice real hard I too can charge 200 dollars to sharpen a 50 dollar knife. It'll be buttery I'm sure. Ohh sorry i mant toasty:oops: Boy i'm making alot of mistakes in this post. I better quit while I'm ahead.
 

noobietinker

New member
Hey I just buy a big freezer for knifes tinkering I will do. I think Tourist is smart with this. What makes no sense to you? :bangin:
 

noobietinker

New member
Maybe if i start sharpening under water I won't have to soak my stones. Ohh wait, That's right. Chico doesn't even use stones. He uses an edge pro. .


Hey Torist used the edgepro and maybe I will to so please be nice to it. I know it is a kind of toy for proffessional tinker to use so maybe I wont used it to. How would you use what?
 

vai777

New member
Noobie-What the hell country or should i say planet are you from? Putting a blade in the freezer to sharpen it is simply retarded. Why put it in the freezer? According to your wise mentor- It just works magically. Yeah, Okay. I'll believe that. Give us some proof you get better results ohh wise tinker. I won't be holding my breath. I can only do that for about 2 and a half minutes these days.
 

noobietinker

New member
Torist has pretty shiny edge pictures of razel knife so he tinker good I think. I know what he said to be true because he be tinkering.

What I from is no busyness of you!
 

sattie

Resident Rocker Lady
I hate to step into something that admittedly I know very little about. But this thread seems to be going down a road that needs to have the 'DEAD END' sign put up. With that being said, this thread will be closed.
 
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