Help me design a new kitchen

buzzard767 · Sep 30, 2013

My wife and I have decided to make a life style change and move our permanent residence to Wisconsin. We're building a house (foundation was poured last week) but won't be able to move in until late June, 2014. The picture below is the generic kitchen on the plans but we are able to do anything we want with it at this stage. We have already told the builder to move the pantry and we can make it several feet deeper in the direction of the arrow.

We are meeting Friday with the kitchen designers. We've worked with them on a previous build and they're a quality company.

What would you do to change the layout? What do you consider to be indispensable kitchen items you could not do without? Any particular appliances? Accessories? Anything goes.

JoeV · Sep 30, 2013

First, I don't see a window over the sink. Maybe it's not in the plans yet, but I don't like staring at the wall when prepping or cleaning up. Natural sunlight is a necessity for a kitchen, IMO. Tops to be solid surface with an under-mount sink for easy counter cleanup.

Second, if I had it to do over, I would install 6-burner, 36" Viking stove. Being a bread baker and feeding crowds around here, I would utilize this unit. I would also have a griddle for the center for flat-top cooking. A hood that vents OUTSIDE is also a must. At the least, a microwave unit vented outside. This is a cabinet and ceiling saver from gresae. If I had the choice, I'd go with the hood and put the microwave somewhere else. If you go with the big stove and hood, consider a pot filler spout behind the stove. Saves you from carrying full pots of water from the sink. Also, I would move the stove to the right with an 18" 0r 24" cabinet at the most against the wall. This will give you more prep space up to the sink.

The island looks nice size. Mine is 36" x 74", and is great for prep space for "helpers," and it keeps them out of my way. It is also has a couple of counter stools with the granite overhanging 10" on one long side. You have the space to go the same size, and would gain additional cabinet space below. I don't know where these designers come up with the odd size cabinets (5'-9"????). It's such a waste when you have the room to go larger. 3" isn't saving or costing an appreciable amount. You also don't want your kitchen to look out of proportion with a too-small island. I've seen that too many times in new homes.

If you are planning a walk-in pantry, lose the pantry cabinet next to the fridge to gain additional counter space for food staging for parties. You'll be thanking yourself during your first pot luck party. My spice cabinet is next to my stove, and it's an upper cabinet. Plenty of room for whatever I need at the stove. Also have a lazy Susan in the corner base cabinet right below for large containers of spices. You could utilize a pull-out shelf instead.

Not sure what the heck they were thinking with the angle for the dishwasher. It's all dead space behind the angle anyway. Make it straight and regain the square inches you lost on the top with the angle, or put in a 36"x36" corner base cabinet and create an "L" shaped top. Looks like you have room for at least 4'-5' on the return, and it would just involve moving the island a bit. Make maximum utilization of all your space. You only have one shot at it.

OH, almost fogot. Make sure to get additional outlets in your garage. Code only requires ONE, and it's a pain to add them later. The builders rarely mention this. Figure how you plan to use the space and add them accordingly. Also put a switched outlet on the front porch for Christmas lights or to plug other things in. Make sure it's switched, and not just a live outlet like builders like to do. Otherwise you're going outside to unplug things that you should be able to do from inside. I also have an outlet at the far end of my deck (away from the house) where I plug in my electric smoker. No extension cords that way, and no smoke coming in the kitchen window.

OK, I've been annoying enough. Enjoy the build process, and don't let your builder walk over you.

Jim_S · Sep 30, 2013

I agree with everything Joe said.

When we rebuilt the kitchen a few years ago we put 2 stacks of deep drawers in the island for pots and pans. Lots easier than cabinets to find things.

I put outlets @2' apart around the backsplash with an outlet on each end of the island. I put a 20 amp circuit in for every 3 outlets. Each set has a gfci. Your frig and microwave each needs it's own circuit. Make sure you have enough light. Task lighting and wide area both.

Are you going gas or electric with the range? What about heat, gas or heat pump/electric? You may need a 400 amp service entrance too.

Think about a generator. Nows the time to at least make room for the transfer switch and if you are not planning on a whole house unit splitting the load between the generator panel and the non generator panel. If you're putting propane in size the storage tank to handle the generator for an extended period.

Make sure you have enough outside outlets and if it snows in your part of the state they are high enough so you can get to them in the winter and water can't get to them when the show melts. Put an outlet on the outside of the garage so you can plug in the battery charger or pre-heater without opening the garage.

I'll walk through our kitchen when I'm home and see if anything else comes to mind

Jim

Jim_S · Sep 30, 2013

Pantries and closets -

Lights!

An outlet in the pantry for the dustbuster.

buzzard767 · Sep 30, 2013

Hi Joe. I was hoping you'd chime in.

JoeV said:
First, I don't see a window over the sink. We're probably going to change the size/shape of both the island and the area where the sink is. Maybe it's not in the plans yet, but I don't like staring at the wall when prepping or cleaning up. Natural sunlight is a necessity for a kitchen, IMO. Tops to be solid surface with an under-mount sink for easy counter cleanup. In the graphic below you can see the sink, especially if it is moved to the left and angled 90 degrees left with a redesigned countertop. It would have a view of the dining area and LR windows as well as a fireplace (red rectangle).

Second, if I had it to do over, I would install 6-burner, 36" Viking stove. Being a bread baker and feeding crowds around here, I would utilize this unit. I knew you would say that, I would also have a griddle for the center for flat-top cooking. A hood that vents OUTSIDE is also a must. At the least, a microwave unit vented outside. This is a cabinet and ceiling saver from gresae. If I had the choice, I'd go with the hood and put the microwave somewhere else. If you go with the big stove and hood, consider a pot filler spout behind the stove. Saves you from carrying full pots of water from the sink. Also, I would move the stove to the right with an 18" 0r 24" cabinet at the most against the wall. This will give you more prep space up to the sink.

Having had a Viking 36" Induction Cooktop in a previous home we've been using induction ever since but are presently limited to two portable units. In one of our houses we had a gas burner on the island with a vented hood above and we are toying with combining these concepts. We'd enlarge the island and reshape it. The cooktop would be on the island and I've insanely chosen a Thermador Induction unit that is beyond cool - just put a pan anyplace on the top and start cooking... CIT36XKB

The island looks nice size. Mine is 36" x 74", and is great for prep space for "helpers," and it keeps them out of my way. It is also has a couple of counter stools with the granite overhanging 10" on one long side. You have the space to go the same size, and would gain additional cabinet space below. I don't know where these designers come up with the odd size cabinets (5'-9"????). It's such a waste when you have the room to go larger. 3" isn't saving or costing an appreciable amount. You also don't want your kitchen to look out of proportion with a too-small island. I've seen that too many times in new homes.

If you are planning a walk-in pantry, lose the pantry cabinet next to the fridge (of course) to gain additional counter space for food staging for parties. You'll be thanking yourself during your first pot luck party. My spice cabinet is next to my stove, and it's an upper cabinet. Plenty of room for whatever I need at the stove. Also have a lazy Susan in the corner base cabinet right below for large containers of spices. You could utilize a pull-out shelf instead.

Not sure what the heck they were thinking with the angle for the dishwasher. It's all dead space behind the angle anyway. Make it straight and regain the square inches you lost on the top with the angle, or put in a 36"x36" corner base cabinet and create an "L" shaped top. Good idea. Looks like you have room for at least 4'-5' on the return, and it would just involve moving the island a bit. Make maximum utilization of all your space. You only have one shot at it.

OH, almost fogot. Make sure to get additional outlets in your garage. Code only requires ONE, and it's a pain to add them later. The builders rarely mention this. Figure how you plan to use the space and add them accordingly. Also put a switched outlet on the front porch for Christmas lights or to plug other things in. Make sure it's switched, and not just a live outlet like builders like to do. Otherwise you're going outside to unplug things that you should be able to do from inside. I also have an outlet at the far end of my deck (away from the house) where I plug in my electric smoker. No extension cords that way, and no smoke coming in the kitchen window. More good ideas. Thanks.

OK, I've been annoying enough. Enjoy the build process, and don't let your builder walk over you. Walk over a Marine? hahahahaha

Jim_S · Sep 30, 2013

I forgot to tell you. Joe and I, along with all of the other Forum members will be glad to help you spend your money! :yankchain:

buzzard767 · Sep 30, 2013

Terrific info in posts 3 & 4, Jim. Lots to think about.

Cooksie · Sep 30, 2013

I've never had but always wanted an appliance garage. I'm kind of anal about lots of gadgets sitting out on the counter, so I'd like to have a place to have the coffee maker and toaster and whatever else closed off.

I love both under and over the cabinet lighting. Over the cabinet lights are more about ambiance, but I like ambiance

.

A wall oven with a built in temperature probe is really nice.

Slide out spice racks and slide out shelving for pots and pans...those have been on my wish list for quite a while.

Counter depth refrigerators sure look better than the others.

I can't tell from the plans, but I much prefer a gas fireplace over a woodburning fireplace.

I know you two are excited! Good luck!

QSis · Sep 30, 2013

I am spacially-challenged and am not a visionary as far as design and placement is concerned.

I can work in any kitchen without complaint.

However, the one thing I would wish for in a kitchen that I don't have is a countertop/bar where I could sit and eat dinner while watching a TV.

Lee

buzzard767 · Sep 30, 2013

Cooksie said:
I've never had but always wanted an appliance garage. I'm kind of anal about lots of gadgets sitting out on the counter, so I'd like to have a place to have the coffee maker and toaster and whatever else closed off.

I love both under and over the cabinet lighting. Over the cabinet lights are more about ambiance, but I like ambiance .

A wall oven with a built in temperature probe is really nice.

Slide out spice racks and slide out shelving for pots and pans...those have been on my wish list for quite a while.

Counter depth refrigerators sure look better than the others.

I can't tell from the plans, but I much prefer a gas fireplace over a woodburning fireplace.

I know you two are excited! Good luck!

Thanks Cooksie. I once had a house with a wood burning FP, wood burning family room heating stove, and a wood burning free standing sauna. I spent winters splitting logs. Never again. :dizzy:

I agree with you on the lighting - lots of it.

JoeV · Sep 30, 2013

Seeing the larger floor plan, I would reverse the kitchen and dining room to gain an outside wall for a window at the sink. Sorry, but you spend more time WITHOUT company in your kitchen than WITH company, and it's therapeutic to be able to see outside, even if the sun is not shining. Also, it puts a buffer between the kitchen where everyone gathers, and the bathroom company would use in the bedroom hallway. I used to have a half bath off the kitchen, and company HATED using it because it was so near where the action was. Some were so self conscious they would go upstairs and use the hall bath up there. I have since renovated my utility room and moved the half bath there, and turned the old room into a walk-in pantry. EVERYONE who comes here loves the fact that I moved it. Here are the before & after shots...

buzzard767 · Sep 30, 2013

QSis said:
I am spacially-challenged and am not a visionary as far as design and placement is concerned.

I can work in any kitchen without complaint.

However, the one thing I would wish for in a kitchen that I don't have is a countertop/bar where I could sit and eat dinner while watching a TV.

Lee

I'm not sure if we can do that. However, there will be a TV in the far corner of the LR. We have this nifty coffee table that pops up and out for eating so that would work in front of a couch and would be right next to the kitchen.

buzzard767 · Sep 30, 2013

JoeV said:
Seeing the larger floor plan, I would reverse the kitchen and dining room to gain an outside wall for a window at the sink. Sorry, but you spend more time WITHOUT company in your kitchen than WITH company, and it's therapeutic to be able to see outside, even if the sun is not shining. Also, it puts a buffer between the kitchen where everyone gathers, and the bathroom company would use in the bedroom hallway. I used to have a half bath off the kitchen, and company HATED using it because it was so near where the action was. Some were so self conscious they would go upstairs and use the hall bath up there. I have since renovated my utility room and moved the half bath there, and turned the old room into a walk-in pantry. EVERYONE who comes here loves the fact that I moved it. Here are the before & after shots...

So much to think about.

Are you talking about the bathroom just below the kitchen? There is another one over to the right near the MBR entrance but that is being deleted in favor of a larger walk in closet and larger laundry room. Highly self conscious folks can also go down stairs as that area will be finished too.

JoeV · Sep 30, 2013

Does Fran not have a hutch or server for the dining room? With all the windows, I see no room for one for you or the next owner (always think resale). Windows are nice, but blank walls are necessary for furniture. If you switched rooms there would be wall space for both items.

buzzard767 · Sep 30, 2013

JoeV said:
Does Fran not have a hutch or server for the dining room? With all the windows, I see no room for one for you or the next owner (always think resale). Windows are nice, but blank walls are necessary for furniture. If you switched rooms there would be wall space for both items.

Yes, we have 1) a server, and 2) an ancient Chinese chicken coop about 5.5' high x 4' wide used for various kitchen related storage items.

Fran is all for swapping the DR and Kitchen. Joe, you're a genius.

Coop:

Cooksie · Oct 1, 2013

Something else that's very simple but mighty handy - the pantry light switched on and off with the opening/closing of the door.

CharlieD · Oct 1, 2013

You are right to think this thru carefully. One thing that is important to mention is order of things. You know fridge, sink then oven. Rather than the way my kitchen is, all backwards. I also recommend large and deep sink, have to make sure that garbage disposal is installed accordingly. Mine is messed up, it is too high and I cannot change the sink, I mean I cannot add deeper sink because of that. Also very important is light. In my kitchen there was not enough light for example, I had to add more but even that is not enough, also I wish the light were kind of more above the stove so I can see better what is going on in the pot. Hard wired Lights under the cabinets is a great addition. Cabinets must go all the way to the sealing otherwise you end up with all the dirt and grime on the top of them. Dual fuel stove I think is a must. Unless you can have separated double oven and gas cooktop, which is even better. I see the island; it would be a good idea to have the electrical out let on both ends of the island. Where outside stove fan is a must, I would not get the big huge microwave, you are a cook and I do not think need the monster microwave for people who warm up leftovers from the doggy bag they brought from restaurant. I have under the cabinet small one and it works just fine. One thing I wish I had was a big build in refrigerator. Recommendation on 6 burner stove is a really good one. My mother in law has a build in grill in her kitchen that is vented with big hood fan outside so you do not get smoke in the house, but that might be a luxury. As far as windows and lights, I did not notice if it two story house or one. If it is one story you can just put in sun lights that will be great help. I agree window is nice, especially this part of the country, light helps to get rid of winter blues.

buzzard767 · Feb 22, 2014

JoeV said:
Seeing the larger floor plan, I would reverse the kitchen and dining room to gain an outside wall for a window at the sink. Sorry, but you spend more time WITHOUT company in your kitchen than WITH company, and it's therapeutic to be able to see outside, even if the sun is not shining.

It's coming along, Joe. The rest of the cabinets should be up next week. The cooktop on the island will be 4 induction burners.

Cooksie · Feb 23, 2014

Looking good! It looks more open concept, which I love, than the original plans. I see plenty of lights too and what looks like will eventually be pendant lights. Thanks for sharing the pictures. I love to see the progress shots.

buzzard767 · Feb 23, 2014

Cooksie said:
Looking good! It looks more open concept, which I love, than the original plans. I see plenty of lights too and what looks like will eventually be pendant lights. Thanks for sharing the pictures. I love to see the progress shots.

Yes, Cooksie, we like open designs. This is our fourth build and hopefully the last and best. The downstairs (MY area of the house) is sort of like the main floor. In this picture the upper right hand section will be a free standing bar and and kitchenette. It's located directly under the kitchen.

QSis · Feb 23, 2014

Looking good, Buzz!

I bet it can't happen soon enough for you and Fran!

Lee

Cooksie · Feb 24, 2014

I would call that a man cave, but that's wayyy too nice to be called man cave. I can't imagine the size of the tv that will be down there. Pah-tay!

buzzard767 · Feb 24, 2014

Cooksie said:
I would call that a man cave, but that's wayyy too nice to be called man cave. I can't imagine the size of the tv that will be down there. Pah-tay!

Yeah. There will be a 65" Plasma against the wall behind where the picture was taken. Even more cave-ish will be inside that enclosed dark doorway on the far wall next to the bar. Inside the theater will be a 4K Sony front projector, 120" wide screen, and all JTR speakers including two sub woofers at 4000 watts each. The neighbors are gonna love, or hate, me. :encore:

This is my last build, my last hurrah - might as well go all the way....

buzzard767 · Jun 19, 2014

We've moved in. Another week for unpacking and putting away and things will be more or less normal. Thanks JoeV for the kitchen/dining room swap suggestion. You were right on the money. Here's the kitchen.

Doc · Jun 20, 2014

Wow Buzz. That came out very very nice. Looks GREAT.

I bought a new boat last week. My first choice was one in Madison Wi. I thought of you and would have contacted you if we'd got that one to see how close you are, but the survey on the boat showed some things wrong with it that I did not care to take a chance on so I bought one in upper Michigan instead. Worked out great but missed a chance to get up in your neck of the woods.

Love your new place. If you don't mind I bet we'd all like to see more than just the kitchen. I bet it is a showplace all around.

Cooksie · Jun 20, 2014

It looks fantastic, and the view out those windows looks killer. I wish I could see trees outside my kitchen windows instead of a driveway.

Ditto what Doc said about seeing some more. I'd like to see the induction burners on the cooktop too.

Congrats on the new boat, Doc.

ChowderMan · Jun 20, 2014

that's a real stunning kitchen! congrats

I luv' the split level island.

buzzard767 · Jun 20, 2014

Cooksie said:
It looks fantastic, and the view out those windows looks killer. I wish I could see trees outside my kitchen windows instead of a driveway.

Ditto what Doc said about seeing some more. I'd like to see the induction burners on the cooktop too.

Congrats on the new boat, Doc.

Yeah, Fran has a great view from her kitchen window (thanks again and again JoeV). With the summer leaves all one can see are trees. Next to the kitchen is a pantry and then a sun room - speaking of seeing. Every morning the first thing I do is check what's outside the sun room; deer, turkeys, woodchucks, etc. This morning I took my dog Bailey out for an early morning pee and there was a coyote standing in the yard. So much for my dreams of letting my nine pound Teddy Bear dog loose without me present and armed....

Next week some time we'll have our hangings on the wall which will complete the move. I'll take some pictures then. Warning: It's not a conventional house. The last house we built in Wausau had three floors, one for each of us at the time. Now that we're down to two peeps we settled on two floors. The upper (ground level) floor is all Fran's and the walkout basement/patio is mine all mine. You'll understand those words when you see it. :biggrin:

belaine · Jun 20, 2014

This looks wonderful, love this topic, I learned to cook in a galley style kitchen and now have a larger kitchen in a larger space with big island. All I ever do is walk around the damn thing though!! Not a good design - the cooktop is also on it and the hood is too low, I am tall previous owners obviously were not

don't bump my head on it anymore because I am used to it, but I would love to blow it up

buzzard767 · Jun 21, 2014

Cooksie said:
It looks fantastic, and the view out those windows looks killer.

Just took this through the kitchen window. See the whitetail down there?

Help me design a new kitchen

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