Knife sharpeners

OK - Here is what I am looking for. Buzz whet my whistle when he sharpened a knife for me. It was my favoritte knife before and now even more than ever.

I would like to be able to sharpen my main kitchen knives and have a good edge. Unfortunately, money is at a premium at the moment. I recently saw a thread here that High Cheese has a Lansky and really likes it. I have been ogling Edge Pro for a long time.

I have no Japanese Knives, although, I have seen one I would love to have. My knives are German and American. They serve me well. I understand the mechanics of Japanese knives and at the moment, will not be going there. This thread is not about knives anyway, it is about sharpening.

I have some oil stones that my dad gave me. To date, I have been using these. As a child, I have a pocket knife that was razor sharp (to a kid) that I maintained with these. I understand that the problem here is holding a consistent angle with out a guide. This is where Lansky and Edge Pro come in. The questions are these:

• Are there other systems worth looking at?
• What is everyday reality? Is the Edge Pro for a hundred or more dollars more far and away that much better?
• What other things should I be looking at to get a good servicable edge for the kitchen at a practical price?

Thank You

I'm happy with my Lansky LKC03 system. it took a couple of passes to straighten out the edge on a couple of my knives that had been abused over the years, but once they were straight and the nicks gone, they sharpened up nicely. I'm sure you can even better results with a more expensive system, but for the money I am pleased. I found that Amazon.com had the best price, but you have to watch the S&H costs.

You can use those tools, but they don't always have the right angles for all knives. Your pocket knife will be much different than your soon to be acquired Japanese kitchen knife. If you truly have the bug, I'd strongly suggest you give Dave a call at http://www.japaneseknifesharpening.com He's a good guy and will properly direct you to the right stones and supplies for starting out. Pick up a crap knife at a flea market and practice on that. Once you have the angle and stroke down, you'll have a skill for the rest of your life. BTW, those very expensive stones on his site are for the more advanced sharpeners... you don't have to worry about them

I actually used oil stones most of my life until I started with Japanese knives. They worked well for everything from pocket knives to kitchen knives with mine being mostly American or German made. Now these knives tend to be softer than the Japanese knives and oil stones handles them well. The main thing is to practice until you learn muscle memory with oil or water stones and once there you have a new skill that will last you the rest of your life. It isn't difficult at all but does take practice and attention to detail. I suggest you stick with the stones you have, follow Warren's advice on the beater knife to practice, then decide after you have tried it to call Dave either for stone recommendations or regular sharpening for you.

An excellent inexpensive practice knife is Old Hickory's carbon steel models as they are very inexpensive usually around $10 to $20 new and take a good edge.

Adillo303 said:

• Are there other systems worth looking at?

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Could question if hte systems you mention are worth looking at ...

• What is everyday reality? Is the Edge Pro for a hundred or more dollars more far and away that much better?

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The reality is these systems will give a flat edge the length of the blade, but they won't give the same edge.

It's simple geometry. The closer the pivot the stone the more angle and stronger the edge, the farther from the pivot the lesser the angle and more fragile the edge. Then account for the curve of hte knife and things get funky fast.

OTOH, Hand sharpening will give more of a consistent angle to the edge but won't give a Flat edge. With practice the blade can get damned flat but humans aren't machines, the edge will not be perfectly 'flat'.

I have a home made wedge setup that runs on rails over stones that I use for sharpening wood chisels @ 22.5 degrees. I can use it for sharpening knives and it works well at giving a flat and consistent angle. But it's a pain in the A to use.

• What other things should I be looking at to get a good serviceable edge for the kitchen at a practical price?

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Yeah, get two stones. A medium and fine. What? You want grit numbers and a conversation on the Japanese Vs other grit numbering systems and different media and all that happy crap?

Sorry. I leave that discussion to those living in PretentiousVille. LOL

Grandpa H. use to cut his grass with a scythe. Grandpa use to sharpen his scythes with a soapstone so I'm told. Probably came from Soapstone, a colloquial name for particular creek.

The edge of Grandpas scythe and other tools were not to be toyed with.

I have two stones, onw marked as a 'electric furnace abrasive' probably made of alumina, and a Arkansas Oil. Both stones are older than me. The alumina stone has two grits. The coarse grit is about useless. THe 'fine' side takes metal fast. Then I finish with a few strokes on the Oil. Gives a very serviceable edge.

One of the secrets of hand sharpening is knowing when to stop.

Despite the theoretical misgivings expressed by Wart, I find the EdgePro to give excellent results, and it's quite easy to use. I simply don't sharpen often enough to master the techniques required to obtain consistently similar results from free stones, nor do I wish to spend that much time trying to obtain minutely sharper edges on my 20+ kitchen knives.

Check the video:

http://www.edgeproinc.com/sharpeningtips.html

I don't have an opinion on either edge pro nor the lansky system as I've just never used them. I do have a Gizmo that I use for cleavers but it is a bit out of most people price range as it still requires an investment in stones. Though I have a couple of old oil stones they are relegated to sharpening tools such as hedge clippers and axes. I use Shapton Glass Stones for my kitchen knife and pocket knife sharpening as well as strops. I am not one that enjoys sharpening at all and though I can do a good job on edges to me it is a means to an end only to keep my knives sharp. I also have as many of you have seen a lot of knives so I don't have to spend a great deal of time sharpening as I rotate what I'm using around and rarely have more than a couple to do at a time.

Even some of the Chef's choice electric sharpeners can be used to get good edges if someone takes the time to use them properly with the right knife in my opinion. They do make a model for Euro knives as well as Japanese knives but there are caveats with both.

FryBoy said:

Despite the theoretical misgivings expressed by Wart

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Yeah, just about as 'theoretical' as trigonometry.

Only thing open to debate is how much the different angles on the edge matters.

Thing is, #1) I'm cheap. #2) WHen I first started seeing posts about sharpening systems I checked them out and soon as I saw one I knew how they worked, thought about it for a minute and came to the conclusion that my carple will have to get allot worse before I can talk myself into paying money for something that works the way those sharpening system works.

Going back to #1, my being cheap, I could build one of those gizmos better and cheaper than that thing he's using. First time I watched the video (year or three ago) I noticed the delta angle.

Watching the vid again I'm reminded of something else. Did you hear the hum when he was stroking? Thats known as tool chatter and it drives a Technician / Craftsman right up the wall, sets our teeth on edge. Akin to fingernails on a chalk board.

And dish soap on the bearing/rod? ... LMAO!

Till I watched the video again I had forgotten about those other reasons I wouldn't use one of these sharpening systems.

joec said:

... as well as strops.

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Good old Leather and Rouge ...

I am not one that enjoys sharpening at all and though I can do a good job on edges to me it is a means to an end only to keep my knives sharp.

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I suspect I enjoy sharpening only slightly more than you.

Actually the edge angle makes difference though it is dependent on the steel in the blade. You can put a very acute angle on a harder steel knife than a softer steel for example and it will hold up as well. Now the softer steel is subject to rolling while the harder is subject to chipping. As for cutting better it is all a matter of the users perception really.

I use to strop coatings one is Chromium Oxide which is .5 microns and a final of .25 micron diamond spray.

All knife sharpening is getting the optimum angle of a given steel used to make the edge on any knife period for maximum sharpness really, nothing more to it. As for edge holding ability that comes down to the steel, heat treatment, profile etc. What might be sharp to one may be dull to another, me for example.

Adillo303 said:

OK - Here is what I am looking for. Buzz whet my whistle when he sharpened a knife for me. It was my favoritte knife before and now even more than ever.

I would like to be able to sharpen my main kitchen knives and have a good edge. Unfortunately, money is at a premium at the moment. I recently saw a thread here that High Cheese has a Lansky and really likes it. I have been ogling Edge Pro for a long time.

I have no Japanese Knives, although, I have seen one I would love to have. My knives are German and American. They serve me well. I understand the mechanics of Japanese knives and at the moment, will not be going there. This thread is not about knives anyway, it is about sharpening.

I have some oil stones that my dad gave me. To date, I have been using these. As a child, I have a pocket knife that was razor sharp (to a kid) that I maintained with these. I understand that the problem here is holding a consistent angle with out a guide. This is where Lansky and Edge Pro come in. The questions are these:

• Are there other systems worth looking at?
• What is everyday reality? Is the Edge Pro for a hundred or more dollars more far and away that much better?
• What other things should I be looking at to get a good servicable edge for the kitchen at a practical price?

Thank You

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I just ordered another Lansky for a Christmas gift. I chose the "Professional" kit ($55) which comes with the ultra fine 1000 grit stone. IMO, anything finer than that is overkill for a kitchen knife. Like Joe V said, you'll have to use a coarse grit first to get the angles correct with the tool. After that you should be fine with just a touch up. Joe V also put up some pics for his homemade holder which you could throw together in a coupla minutes.

I saw that holder Jay - It is a great idea.

I tend to overbuy and I am really liking the infinite angle adjustment of the Edge Pro. I am starting to believe that the Lansky is quite sufficient and am locking my charge plate away till I think on it.

I got the EdgePro, and it did a great job! I only had to use it once on my chef's knife. I spent a couple hours on it reshaping the edge angle and sharpening it. That was nearly a year ago, and since then I've only used the ceramic rod to keep it in tip-top shape.

I did some other knives, but they were not as high quality as my chef's knife. They started sharp, but dulled quickly due to poor quality steel.

It's hard to say if I'd buy the EdgePro again. It's a great system. It did such a good job that I used it once, and haven't needed it again!

If you have good knives that will hold an edge, then I would look at having them professionally sharpened, and then buying the ceramic rod from EdgePro to keep them touched up. If your knives are lesser quality, and you need to sharpen them more often, then the EdgePro is a great system, especially if you have a lot of knives.

I'd say the things you should consider are:

The quality of your knives. Should you be looking at knives that will hold an edge longer?

The time you want to spend. There will be a learning curve with any sharpening system, and reshaping your edge will take time and elbow grease.

The money you want to spend. Where is it best spent vs. the time spent. Spending some money will often save you some time, and vice versa.

I have to laugh, Rob, because you hit it on the head. High quality knives that are taken care of will hold an edge for a long time. Maybe you could rent your EdgePro out to get some of your investment back. LOL

RobsanX said:

I got the EdgePro, and it did a great job! I only had to use it once on my chef's knife. I spent a couple hours on it reshaping the edge angle and sharpening it. That was nearly a year ago, and since then I've only used the ceramic rod to keep it in tip-top shape.

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Whats interesting about that is Wife doesn't touch the 10" knives and rarely uses the 8" knives instead opting for 6" and paring knives.

Guess which knives are still sharp after well over a year. LOL!

That is typical really with probably the most popular knife for women is the santoku which is about 6.5" on average. My wife is no different either and I have an easy 50 knives here but she uses about 4 and her favorite is a 150mm petty knife.

I must confess - I have one of these:
http://www.accusharp.com/

Terry - Would that have been a Woot?

No, no. I actually read about them over at DC - someone said they were easy for novices to use. And since they are only $10, I got one.

You have to use a very, very light hand as it will remove metal quickly. But it does make my knives sharp. (Not sharp like Buzz and JoeC and Wart have - but sharp like better than before.)

Wart said:

Yeah, just about as 'theoretical' as trigonometry.

Only thing open to debate is how much the different angles on the edge matters.

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The differences are minimal and virtually nonexistent if you follow the instructions and move the blade of the knife across the blade table (the little platform on which it rests) as you sharpen it. The portion of the blade being sharpened should always be on the blade table, not far off to the left or right. As you gain experience with the EdgePro, you learn to move the blade consistently as you sharpen. See page 8 of the instruction manual.

I haven't done the math, but I suspect that the variation in the angle is less than 1/10 of a degree, whereas hand sharpening invariably results in much greater variation.

FryBoy said:

The differences are minimal and virtually nonexistent if you follow the instructions and move the blade of the knife across the blade table (the little platform on which it rests) as you sharpen it. The portion of the blade being sharpened should always be on the blade table, not far off to the left or right.

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Except in the video.

As you gain experience with the EdgePro, you learn to move the blade consistently as you sharpen. See page 8 of the instruction manual.

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Same with hand sharpening.

[

I haven't done the math, but I suspect that the variation in the angle is less than 1/10 of a degree, whereas hand sharpening invariably results in much greater variation.

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If I had one of these gizmos in my possession I would get a ruler and Mr.s Pythagoras, Euclid and I would sit down and work it out.

But thats just me.

This is the thing, the OP asked the question: What other things should I be looking at to get a good servicable edge for the kitchen at a practical price?

My answer is: One can get a good, serviceable and unpretentious edge for the cost of a stone or two, a can of lubricant (or tap water) and a little practice.

I'll give you that serviceable is relevant. If one spends all day every day driving a knife their perspective of serviceable will be different than the other 99 44/100% of the population.

Now, if someone needs one of these gizmos to put on an edge I can relate, as I mentioned in a previous post as my carpal and spasms worsen I can see that day coming for me too. And it sucks.

I bought the first or second gizmo made by Ken. Now I bought it to do cleaver but do my knives by hand. The problem with sharpening cleaver is my old hands can't hold a steady enough angle and that is something the gizmo excels at. Knives are easy for me to hold fairly constant free hand. Now the gizmo doesn't make a more perfect precise edge in the way it works. Hand sharpening is close and really can be taken to great levels of precision though not as perfect as a machine by any stretch. Now if one really want precision then I suggest they invest in a CNC setup for a few thousand dollars but to cut a vegetable or piece of meat it tends to be a bit of over kill.

I was at a wonderful little junk shop yesterday and found a Norton India Combination Oilstone in a very nice wooden holder. The stone is about 8 inches long and about 2 inches wide. It is obviously well used. Is this item something I can actually use to sharpen knives or is it just something cool to look at?

You may just need to get the surface trued up..er, flattened.

Where would I do that? (It looks flat.) What I meant by well used is that the wooden holder and the stone itself has a lot of stuff on it that looks like pencil lead or graphite. Is that normal?

That is what oil stone usually look like. As for flattening it takes a long time on some oil stones to really get them out of flat. The easiest was it to find a nice flat slab of concrete (like the side walk) and rub it on there until flat. It does work pretty well on oil stones but I would never do it with a water stone. Oil stones are a different breed altogether but it will sharpen a knife especially the softer steel knives most have in their homes.

Do you use oilstones, Joe? I'm asking because I'm wondering if it is worth playing around with it on some crappy knives or not.

I have a couple that I use for tools such as chisels, mower blades, axe blades, and yard knives. For my kitchen and pocket knives I use waterstones exclusively due to the type of steels in them that I own. Now if I had the typical European made knife like Forschner, Henckels or Wusthof then I wouldn't have a problem using oil stones as the steels are not ultra hard like the Japanese knives I use. I say go for it girl if nothing else you will learn to sharpen by hand which can't be bad. I think everyone that cooks ought to learn to maintain their knives themselves.

Thank you, Joe. I will do that then. (Do I put oil on the stone each time and what kind should I use?)

Well the oil stones I have I use a honing oil (find in any hardware). Mineral oil also works well also from what I understand though I've never tried it. With waterstones you don't ever want any kind of oil to touch as it will ruin them. Oil stones if never oiled can also be used with water unless it has oil applied to it ever.

You want to keep a film of oil in the case of an oil stone or water in the case of a water stone at all times. It helps in keeping the metal you are removing from clogging the stone.

I know these are stupid questions, but I am listening carefully to your answers. I will only use it on soft-metal knives. I have a very inexpensive set here that is similar to the cheaper Chicago Cutlery - that would be OK to practice on, right?