Pots and Pans Discussion

SilverSage · Nov 19, 2010

This may seem a little disjointed, but I pulled it from another thread when we went seriously off-topic and hijacked the original thread. So just pick it up from here and roll with it.....

My second husband used to run up to Kitchen Glamour, the local kitchen supply store, and ask the manager, "What does she want?" Wilma would put something in his hands, and he'd pay for it. That's how I got most of this. After 4 1/2 years, I had all the copper I needed, so......

QSis · Nov 19, 2010

Re: Buying for men

SilverSage said:
After 4 1/2 years, I had all the copper I needed, so......

LOL!

Lee

Keltin · Nov 19, 2010

Re: Buying for men

SS, that is an amazing set! Have you ever been tempted to cook on it???

SilverSage · Nov 19, 2010

Re: Buying for men

Keltin said:
SS, that is an amazing set! Have you ever been tempted to cook on it???

Smart A$$

I've had it for 25-30 years and have cooked many meals in it. My favorite pieces, the omelettes and sautes have been so used that their tin linings are heavily worn away. They need to be re-tinned, but there is no one in the southeast doing it (at least that I can find). I have to send these heavy pans up north and have them done. I'm looking at nearly $100 per pan to reline them. So after years of use, they mostly look pretty now.

There are some exceptions. The copper gives me such excellent control of the heat, that I make hollandaise over direct heat, not a double boiler. I can whip up a perfect hollandaise in just a minute in a small copper saucepan over a medium-to-high heat. Whenever I pull the little one down at breakfasttime, SousChef breaks into a big grin. She knows she's getting Eggs Benedict - her favorite.

Sour cream can break in a stroganoff if you don't control the heat, so it's another thing that always goes in copper.

And the egg white bowl (hanging on the wall) still gets a workout when I bake. When I really need stable meringue, I use the unlined bowl with a whisk instead of the mixer. PERFECT egg whites every time!

Keltin · Nov 19, 2010

Re: Buying for men

WHOOPS! :hide:

Wow, seriously, the way you have them displayed, and how pristine they look, I thought you just collected them! They look so new and shiny, I'd never have thought you actually use them! That is amazing!!

ETA: I was thinking you collected copper and used CI or SS in or some other set of pots and pans for real duty in the kitchen.

SilverSage said:
Smart A$$

I've had it for 25-30 years and have cooked many meals in it. My favorite pieces, the omelettes and sautes have been so used that their tin linings are heavily worn away. They need to be re-tinned, but there is no one in the southeast doing it (at least that I can find). I have to send these heavy pans up north and have them done. I'm looking at nearly $100 per pan to reline them. So after years of use, they mostly look pretty now.

There are some exceptions. The copper gives me such excellent control of the heat, that I make hollandaise over direct heat, not a double boiler. I can whip up a perfect hollandaise in just a minute in a small copper saucepan over a medium-to-high heat. Whenever I pull the little one down a breakfast, SousChef breaks into a big grin. She knows she's getting Eggs Benedict - her favorite.

Sour cream can break in a stroganoff if you don't control the heat, so it's another thing that always goes in copper.

And the egg white bowl (hanging on the wall) still gets a workout when I bake. When I really need stable meringue, I use the unlined bowl with a whisk instead of the mixer. PERFECT egg whites every time!

CaliforniaCook · Nov 19, 2010

Re: Buying for men

SS, it's a small world. I bought copper pots & pans years ago from williams-sonoma. I read the instructions re removing the coating? Wasn't qute sure, so I kept them displayed on a mirrored potrack for years - collecting dust. Me bad, I guess. Some of them turned green when I tried to wash them. Wound up tossing them & donating the rest.

SilverSage · Nov 19, 2010

Re: Buying for men

Keltin said:
WHOOPS!

ETA: I was thinking you collected copper and used CI or SS in or some other set of pots and pans for real duty in the kitchen.

Heresy alert!!!!! I am not a fan of CI. I have one 10-inch skillet that I use for cornbread once or twice a year. That's it.

I do have lots of LeCreuset, however, which is CI with an enamel coating. The only pieces of it I ever use are the dutch ovens. I think all the rest is out in the garage somewhere.

Like Jay, I'm a big fan of All-Clad. I also like the Tramontina as a lower priced alternative.

SilverSage · Nov 19, 2010

Re: Buying for men

I'm thinking that we've effectively hijacked this thread. Would anyone object it I pulled the discussion of pots & pans out of the "jokes and funny stories thread" and moved it to its own place? We could give Ray back his thread.

Keltin · Nov 19, 2010

Re: Buying for men

SilverSage said:
I'm thinking that we've effectively hijacked this thread. Would anyone object it I pulled the discussion of pots & pans out of the "jokes and funny stories thread" and moved it to its own place? We could give Ray back his thread.

No objection here. I actually wouldn't mind talking more about copper. I've never cooked on it, but it has always fascinated me. Aluminum too.

SilverSage · Nov 19, 2010

My ideal has always been to cook in silver. It is supposed to be the best conductor, followed by copper, then aluminum. But I've never actually seen silver pans.

Keltin · Nov 19, 2010

What about aluminum? It seems in the restaurant biz these are favored, and often considered throw away pans? That is, buy a new one every 2 years or so, and cook your butt off in it while its there?

As for copper, you’ve had it for while, so how do you like it? Have you tried it on electric and gas? Is there a difference between using it on gas and electric? Is copper hard to clean and keep shiny?

SilverSage · Nov 19, 2010

Keltin said:
What about aluminum? It seems in the restaurant biz these are favored, and often considered throw away pans? That is, buy a new one every 2 years or so, and cook your butt off in it while its there?

Conductivity is key. Each metal conducts or insulates to a different degree. You're science-y enough to appreciate that a highly conductive metal transmits heat quickly, but also cools quickly. This means you can easily control the heat in a pan by simply lifting the pan off the heat for a few seconds, and returning it to the burner as necessary.

Especially with sauces dependent on eggs, butter and cream, this allows you to control the cooking process better than anything.

Silver is the tops - but because of the cost, you can't actually buy silver pans. It's also very soft and doesn't hold up to lots of banging around.

Copper is second, and much more affordable and durable than silver, but still relatively expensive. Copper is also reactive with acidic ingredients, and therefore needs to be coated with another metal. Historically tin was used, but it wears away over time. Newer copper is coated with nickel or stainless steel, which are both more durable, but both reduce the conductivity to some extent.

Aluminum is third, and VERY affordable! But aluminum has 2 drawbacks. It's nearly as soft as silver, so it gets 'beat up' very easily, and it is reactive with acidic ingredients. Therefore, aluminum needs to be either anodized or coated. Either creates a barrier between the metal and the food.

Because of its good conductivity and its low cost, restaurants choose it for most of their saute pans. It's cheap enough that when it gets beat up, they can just toss it and replace it. You can buy a decent aluminum skillet for under $20, The same pan in copper will cost you $200.

SilverSage · Nov 19, 2010

Keltin said:
As for copper, you’ve had it for while, so how do you like it? Have you tried it on electric and gas? Is there a difference between using it on gas and electric?

The beauty of copper is that it overcomes the disadvantage of electric. I've used it on both, but for the last 20 years I've lived where gas isn't available. (That's very common in Florida). Gas gives you instant control over the heat level. Copper gives you instant control over the heat level. If you are cooking on electric, lifting the copper pan overrides the delay that you expect from the burner.

The converse is not true with a poorer conductor. Cast iron is a heat sink. It is slower to heat up, but when it does get hot, it holds the heat for a very long time. If something on the stove is cooking too high, lifting the pan does not effectively cool the pan. The pan itself is now a heat source. This is excellent for something that needs to be cooked low and slow in the oven, like a braise. But it is very poor for a quick saute and a simple pan reduction or an emulsified sauce like a bearnaise.

SilverSage · Nov 20, 2010

Keltin said:
Is copper hard to clean and keep shiny?

Um... yes. Well, no. It's not exactly hard, it's just a P.I.T.A. But it's also not necessary. I only polish mine once every year or two. Most of the time I just wash it and dry it. The pics you see are not polished. If I polish it, I'll post the difference. Tarnish doesn't hurt the performance, and I never got those pans for show. To me they are tools, not decorations. So I don't bother polishing them very often.

When I do, I've used different things. Metal polish. Ketchup. Salt & vinegar. Bar Keepers Friend.

bigjim · Nov 20, 2010

I've used copper pretty much exclusively for years. I do not find it all that hard to keep clean. I use Wrights Copper Cleaner, but most of the popular cleaners will do the job. Nothing cooks like copper over gas. Heat control is nearly instantaneous. You must use soft utensils. Metal spoons will destroy the interior. An alternative is stainless steel lined copper, you give up only a small amount.
My retinning is done at Rocky Mountain Retinning, and currently costs $5/inch length + height. IMO he is the best. The fact that he gets less than a pan a year from me speaks well for his work.

This photo is from an earlier thread. I've added a few since then

SilverSage · Nov 20, 2010

bigjim said:
My retinning is done at Rocky Mountain Retinning, and currently costs $5/inch length + height. IMO he is the best. The fact that he gets less than a pan a year from me speaks well for his work.

Exactly my problem. A 10-inch skillet, 2 inches deep, costs 10"+2"+2"=14"
14" x $5=$70 Plus shipping. From Florida I'm looking at $100 per pan times 10 pans. $1000 to re-line the tin. I just can't afford it.

bigjim · Nov 20, 2010

I think that RMR charges length + width. (10 +2). Other's charge both sides.
I don't know how worn your pans are, but as long as you do cook acid foods, you will not have a problem.
From what I can see, your copper is either Dehellerin, Mauviel, or an equivalent high quality brand, and certainly worth retinning.

Adillo303 · Nov 20, 2010

All that copper is really impressive. I have some revere Ware. The old good stuff. Made in upstate New York, with the date stamped on it. No match for Y'all's copper,but, I really like it.

High Cheese · Nov 20, 2010

I want one Mauviel 10" (actually I think they come 9") skillets and a 1.5qt sauce pan.

joec · Nov 20, 2010

The only copper I have now is my grandmothers mixing bowl. She used to whip her egg whites in it exclusively. I did have some old Revere Ware when I first got married (wedding gift) however it has been gone for years now. Today it is strictly induction ready cook ware, CI and SS only. Still would like to have a display set of copper but no place to display them now.

bigjim · Nov 20, 2010

joec said:
The only copper I have now is my grandmothers mixing bowl. She used to whip her egg whites in it exclusively. I did have some old Revere Ware when I first got married (wedding gift) however it has been gone for years now. Today it is strictly induction ready cook ware, CI and SS only. Still would like to have a display set of copper but no place to display them now.

For me, having copper and not using it is like having a Daytona 500 in a museum. Beautiful in their own right, but made to be used.
Chef's used to own their pots, and a few of mine have owners initials stamped in them.
Those are my favorites as I know that the original owner was an excellent chef.

Shermie · Nov 21, 2010

bigjim said:
I've used copper pretty much exclusively for years. I do not find it all that hard to keep clean. I use Wrights Copper Cleaner, but most of the popular cleaners will do the job. Nothing cooks like copper over gas. Heat control is nearly instantaneous. You must use soft utensils. Metal spoons will destroy the interior. An alternative is stainless steel lined copper, you give up only a small amount.
My retinning is done at Rocky Mountain Retinning, and currently costs $5/inch length + height. IMO he is the best. The fact that he gets less than a pan a year from me speaks well for his work.

This photo is from an earlier thread. I've added a few since then

My, my, my!!

Having a monster step of copper cookware like that must be a joy to look at and use, but to me, it would be pure hell to try to keep clean and shiny!

Seems like it would require a 2nd job or live-in help!!! It must really keep you busy. :ohmy:

joec · Nov 21, 2010

bigjim said:
I've used copper pretty much exclusively for years. I do not find it all that hard to keep clean. I use Wrights Copper Cleaner, but most of the popular cleaners will do the job. Nothing cooks like copper over gas. Heat control is nearly instantaneous. You must use soft utensils. Metal spoons will destroy the interior. An alternative is stainless steel lined copper, you give up only a small amount.
My retinning is done at Rocky Mountain Retinning, and currently costs $5/inch length + height. IMO he is the best. The fact that he gets less than a pan a year from me speaks well for his work.

This photo is from an earlier thread. I've added a few since then

Yes Jim I would agree if I had gas but haven't in over 40 years. Today I have induction and would go back to gas for any reason due to the fact it is capable of hotter and colder cooking temperature as close to instantaneous as possible. I can even melt chocolate without a double boiler without scorching it. A modern marvel really and cheaper as well as more efficient than either gas or electric. Now with that said copper won't work with it but really not needed much at all as stainless or cast iron works fine and will match copper on the induction units.

bigjim · Nov 21, 2010

Keltin said:
What about aluminum? It seems in the restaurant biz these are favored, and often considered throw away pans? That is, buy a new one every 2 years or so, and cook your butt off in it while its there?

As for copper, you’ve had it for while, so how do you like it? Have you tried it on electric and gas? Is there a difference between using it on gas and electric? Is copper hard to clean and keep shiny?

I installed gas in my kitchen within the past year. Prior to that, I had always used electric. The chief difference between gas and electric lies in the loss of temp control. It is not as reactive as with gas, although quicker than SS or CI on either heat source. I have no experience at all with induction, but if I had no gas option, I would look seriously at it.

Keltin · Nov 21, 2010

I've seen a ferw posts here on "re-tinning". Please explain. Is a copper pot/pan mostly copper with a "tin" coating on the cook side? Kind of like how non-stick pans have a non-stick coating over something else?

It seems the tin can wear off? How long does the tin last?

Adillo303 · Nov 22, 2010

SilverSage said:
Copper is second, and much more affordable and durable than silver, but still relatively expensive. Copper is also reactive with acidic ingredients, and therefore needs to be coated with another metal. Historically tin was used, but it wears away over time. Newer copper is coated with nickel or stainless steel, which are both more durable, but both reduce the conductivity to some extent.

Hi Keltin,

I think SS covered that earlier on.

JoeC - I understand enough about induction to know that the pot or frypan becomes the heat source. I assume that "something" jiggles the atoms of the pot around to generate heat. What is that something? Magnetic? If yes, why does it work on SS? Something else?

Whatever it is how much energy is radiated into the surrounding area, be it magnetic or RF? How much testing has been done to make sure that there are no long term side effects?

Just askin.

Keltin · Nov 22, 2010

Adillo303 said:
Hi Keltin,

I think SS covered that earlier on.

JoeC - I understand enough about induction to know that the pot or frypan becomes the heat source. I assume that "something" jiggles the atoms of the pot around to generate heat. What is that something? Magnetic? If yes, why does it work on SS? Something else?

Whatever it is how much energy is radiated into the surrounding area, be it magnetic or RF? How much testing has been done to make sure that there are no long term side effects?

Just askin.

:doh:

Thanks!

bigjim · Nov 22, 2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_cooker

This is a good description of induction cooktops.

Joe, one question:

The article states that the shape of the burner must match the shape of the pan. Does that mean that things like square pans, roasters, and double burner griddles will not work?

joec · Nov 22, 2010

It really doesn't matter much as long as the magnet is large enough under the stove top. Now stainless will work but not all stainless will. 18/10 outside won't work as it is non magnetic while 18/0 will work fine. It also doesn't matter if it has aluminum, copper etc in the center as long as the out side of the pan can be effected by a magnetic field. Turn up the field pan gets hotter turn it down pan gets colder. It is as instantaneous as it gets with no wasted energy. Cast Iron is also excellent even enameled coatings.

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